Re: Happy Christmas!


"Oz" <Oz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:Ry1r06DrtRtDFwui@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Jim Webster <Jim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes
> >
> >"Oz" <Oz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>
> >> No problem using saints as go-betweens, not everyone feels secure
> >> dealing with the lord. Particularly a severe lord and particularly
given
> >> the way lords tended to behave to transgressors in the middle ages.
> >
> >It is a bit like saying there is no problem using a crutch when you don't
> >actually have anything wrong with your leg. There isn't but is seems a
bit
> >daft when you can do without it.
>
> Of course, if you can do without it.
> The average peasant could get thrashed for looking a lord in the eye.

Yes, but New Testament teaching has always stressed mercy and grace, and the
idea of the Lord being a carpenters son. That is one reason why it was so
popular

>
> >Medieval Christianity did get heavily bogged down in superstition, and
the
> >veneration of saints got entangled in indulgencies and the concept of
> >purgatory and reducing your time there
>
> Yes. So?

So that led to what the protestant churches would regard as an over fondness
for saints interceding

>
>
> >> >VI. Of the Sufficiency of the Holy Scriptures for Salvation.
> >> >Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation: so that
> >> >whatsoever is not read therein, nor may be proved thereby, is not to
be
> >> >required of any man,
> >>
> >> Yeah, right. And who does the 'proving' and who says when things are
> >> 'proved'? Oh, yes is it the bishops or the king?
> >
> >No it is not. That is the whole nature of Protestantism. It is the reader
> >himself or herself.
>
> That's true in catholicism where conscience comes above the teachings of
> the church. However to have enough knowledge to really decide was for
> millennia beyond the capability of the illiterate peasant.

No, Scripture comes above the teachings of the church, or anything else for
that matter, which is why Protestantism didn't really appear until the
printing press and the possibility that everyone could own their own copy,
or at least have realistic access to it.


>

> >there is no reason why you cannot look to the teachings of wiser and more
> >learned people than us. But it all boils down to making your own mind up,
> >and remembering that the writings of these people are not 'necessary to
> >salvation'. The pope may be right, he may be wrong, you don't have to
> >believe him
>
> You don't even have to under catholicism.

Which rather makes one wonder why he claims infallibility

>
> >> Then, ye gods, what if it were proved that the proof was wrong 200
years
> >> later? Do we condemn 200 yearsworth of devout believers to eternal
hell?
> >>
> >
> >we don't contemn anyone to anything
> >
> >That is why the important thing is the personal relationship between the
> >believer and God. Not what is said by the Bishop of Rome
>
> Eh?
> The last pope was always wittering on about precisely that.
> Not to mention reams and reams of saints.

Sure the last pope may well have been, Catholicism is catching up, they are
now accepting things that were anathema a century ago. As for the saints, I
confess to having little knowledge of their teachings, indeed in low church
thinking the communion of saints is the communion of all believers. All who
accept Jesus Christ as lord are saints, basically those who are set apart.

--

Jim Webster.
Pat Gardiner, Five years raving about bent vets and still no result



.

Relevant Pages

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