Re: Helping each other vs. helping the world
- From: norbu.tragri@xxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 01:49:36 -0800 (PST)
On Nov 2, 3:36 am, Wompom <m...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Nov 2, 10:07 am, norbu.tra...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Nov 1, 11:08 am, oxtail <oxtail@empty> wrote:
norbu.tra...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Oct 31, 8:21 am, oxtail <oxtail@empty> wrote:
norbu.tra...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
Just a thought. we seem to spend all our time here debating
different ideas
and points of view on the dharma...which is good... But at some point
we might
have to stop trying to be perfect and stop trying to make others
perfect and
get out beyond this group and do some good in the word...
The buddhist NGs act as a sort of sangha where people give checks
and balances to each other,
but actual sanghas are involved in real actions in their
communities....
i think that the NGs are missing a bit of what makes samghas work,
the real world work stuff,
not just us here slapping at each others stuck points. That's part of
samgha, but another part
is saying that we all have to be good citizens of our communities and
the planet.
to move a bit from the narcissism of slagging each others failures
to perfect in each others
eyes and spend some of that energy to help folks who are in much more
dire straits...
i'm open to all ideas on this introduction of a new dimension to
the NGs - outreach and help to
the world and our communities...
i don't think we have to wait to be buddhas to *really* work to
help this troubled world...
ripping into each other's ideas/dogmas can still go on, but we can
do so much more than that....
i'm not talking about just throwing money at a problem....i know
you folks here....i think a discussion
of global and local problems might lead to some creative
solutions....or at least clarifying the conflicts....
- ideas ?
- n
Give away all you got
and beg for your food.
--
oxtail
Right - that's why the Boss forbade there to be a no-monastic
community, right?
Why Vimalakirti and Marpa were monks right? Sariputra sure showed up
Vimalakirti.
"Give away all you got
and beg for your food" is one wing...
"Use what you got
grow food and give it away" is another wing...
there might be seven or so wings to awakening...
in the mean time, i think you missed the gist of my post:
you might have missed this tiny notion:
" But at some point we might
have to stop trying to be perfect and stop trying to make others
perfect and get out beyond this group and do some good in the word....
"The buddhist NGs act as a sort of sangha where people give checks
and balances to each other, but actual sanghas are involved in real
actions in their communities....
"i think that the NGs are missing a bit of what makes samghas work,
the real world work stuff, not just us here slapping at each others
stuck points. That's part of samgha, but another part
is saying that we all have to be good citizens of our
communities and the planet.
"to move a bit from the narcissism of slagging each others failures
to perfect in each others eyes and spend some of that energy to help
folks who are in much more dire straits..."
Do you need to be right and make me wrong more than dropping all
that
and come up with some suggestion about how monks/nuns *and* lay folks
can do something
in this maya-like but not maya rupa=sunya, sunya=sunya, rupa=rupa, etc
etc world -
beyond theory and the news-group drama cacoon...?
If you want to be right more than doing something to help folks in
dire straits,
by all means stay with the habitual style of post of the NG. There is
a place for that
as well...i was suggesting that the NGs could broaden their options
and views.
You posted
"Is there anything that has to be done?
If you can't do it yourself,
you should at least be willing
to beg others to do it for you."
Yes, people all around could use some help.
i can't help the people you know, or pass on the street
everyday. or that the other folks on the ng know...
it's not a matter of begging other folks on the NGs
to think outside the box of the NGs...we are all grown up...
we do not have to enlightened or so worried bout if we are or not
to start being good citizens. If you want begging:
please help the people in your life, please help the strangers you
meet.
please use the NGs to help others to do that.
some global shit has hit the global fan and it might get worse...
so folks with a clue might look at all that and lend a hand,
these Ngs might be a resource for that
as well as for the "I'm enlightened and You're not!" old stuff.
just a suggestion...the groups could grow a bit in scope and depth etc
in working with these times if folks are interested.
- n.
I'm here to give all I got.
--
oxtail
:) *hug*
my notion here is not to change the way we all interact on these
groups,
but to add a new aspect, how we live in our communities and families
etc. That's traditionally a part of the path, but it hasn't shown up
much on the bist NGs...
With the US in recession a lot of folks there will faced with hard
times, losing jobs, etc,
which will affect a lot of folks around the world. Asia is being hit
by this as well.
Pension funds are threatened to be lost, health care, etc etc...
So maybe we can start to discuss our local community issues, exchange
ideas about what
we can do, look up information on NGOs, local groups etc to see what
we can do do help
people in basic ways...Food banks, shelters, clinics, whatever.
Traditionally Buddhists in Asia did this, but in the West Buddhism has
tended to be
a trifle elitist and narcissistic, folks narrowing their focus on
theory and meditation
or chanting and losing the whole "generosity" aspect of the path. The
first paramita;
the foundation of the bodhisattva path.
If folks on the NGs don't want to get into this, i'll drop it...i know
that it means
moving a bit outside of some folks comfort zones...
On the other paw moving outside of our comfort zones is part of the
path...
"against the flow" of habitual patterns....
These quotes might explain some of this direction:
The Tathagata: Here the Bodhisattva, the Mahasattva, thinks thinks
thus:
"Countless beings should I lead to Nirvana, and yet there are none who
lead to Nirvana, or who should be lead to it." However many beings he
may
lead to Nirvana, yet there is not any being that has been lead to
Nirvana,
nor that has lead others to it. For such is the true nature of
dharmas, seeing
that their nature is illusory. Just as if, Subhuti, a clever magician,
or magician's
apprentice, were to conjure up at the crossroads a great crowd of
people,
and then make them vanish again. What do you think, Subhuti, was
anyone
killed by anyone, or murdered, or destroyed, or made to vanish?
Subhuti: No indeed, Lord.
T: Even so a Bodhisattva, a Mahasattva, leads countless beings to
Nirvana,
and yet there is not any being that has been lead to Nirvana, nor that
has lead
others to it. To hear this exposition without fear, that is the great
thing which
entitles the Bodhisattva to be known as "armed with the great armour".
S: As I understand the meaning of the Lord's teaching, as cetainly
not armed
with an armour should this Bodhisattva, this Mahasattva, be known.
T: So it is. For all-knowledge is not made, not unmade, not
effected. Those
beings also for whose sake he is armed with the great armour are not
made,
not unmade, not effected.
- The Astasahasrika-prajnaparamita-sutra, 20-23
The awakened one does not seek truth--
Does not cut off delusion.
Truth and delusion are both vacant and without form,
But this no-form is neither empty nor not empty;
It is the truly real form of the Tathagata.
To live in nothingness is to ignore cause and effect;
This chaos leads only to disaster.
The one who clings to vacancy, rejecting the world of things,
Escapes from drowning but leaps into fire.
Holding truth and rejecting delusion--
These are but skillful lies.
Students who do zazen by such lies
Love thievery in their own children.
They miss the Dharma-treasure;
They lose accumulated power;
And this disaster follows directly upon dualistic thinking.
So Zen is the complete realization of mind,
The complete cutting off of delusion,
The power of wise vision penetrating directly to the unborn.
- Cheng-Tao-Ko [Zhengdaoge] <Jp. 'Shodoka'> v28, 30, 31, 32
Yung-chia Hsuan-chueh [Yongjia Xuanjue] China (665-713)
In the spiritual energy that relieves
The anguish of beings in misery and
Places depressed beings in eternal joy
I lift up my heart and rejoice.
In the goodness producing illumination
I lift up my heart and rejoice.
I rejoice in the beings who have gained
Eternal liberation from suffering.
And I rejoice in those attained to Buddhahood
As well as in their offspring, the noble Bodhisattvas.
In the ocean-like virtue of the Bodhimind
That brings joy to all beings
And in accomplishing the well-being of others,
I lift up my heart and rejoice.
To the Buddhas of the ten directions
I join my hands in respect
Let blaze the light of Dharmas truth
For the beings lost in darkness
To the Buddhas considering parinirvarna
I join my hands in prayer
Do not abandon the beings in sorrow
But remain and teach for countless ages.
May any spiritual energy thus generated
By my devotion to the enlightened ones
Be dedicated to dispelling the misery
Of living beings without exception.
As long as diseases afflict living beings
May I be the doctor, the medicine
And also the nurse
Who restores them to health.
May I fall as rain to increase
The harvests that must feed living beings
And in ages of dire famine
May I myself serve as food and drink.
May I be an ...
read more »
Ya like Muslims do, we should regularly give away some of our money or
time to help others....
Traditionally buuddhadharma practitioners do... "Dana" (generosity/
openness) is the ground of the bodhisattva
path - there is no path without it. we give the dharma, food, shelter,
listening to each other, caring, whatever we
have to give we give at the right time and place where it will help
most...Sometimes people just want to
seen and listened to...i think one of the worst things we do to each
other is to treat each other as if the
other was invisible ("That person is weird/normal/etc, - I don't have
time for it, it has nothing to do with
my plans to get what I want...")...If we're going to connect with each
other in the world i think we have
to give away a bit of preconceptions, prejudices, and plans as well as
time and money...
i think that might matter from what i was taught and what's gone on in
my life...
One of the strange things on the NGs is that folks seem to want to own
a bit of pixels on a screen as their
own triumph, declaring a dogma, bashing someone else's imagined flaws,
etc. Dana also means hospitality -
that was a traditional value in arab, norse, tibetan, indian, you-name-
it cultures...Someone comes by,
offer them a seat, a cup of tea, lunch, dinner, whatever - we are all
neighbors, and in the same boat in life...
The interactions that make us monkeys human beings are getting lost in
pop-culture and fundamentalism's
attempt to fragment everyone into us-vs-them. dana also means giving
away the partitions, opening our hearts...
?
not stating some theory here - i'm trying to get folks to post their
ideas on this topic...
"give away some time and money" to those in need certainly to the
point. we don't need to make this too
complicated or bet lost in theory. i was sort of thinking about how
and where we can do that locally -
posting about your local food bank, shelter, co-ops, whatever, to
stimulate ideas for new approaches
in our communities...
:)
n.
.
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- Re: Helping each other vs. helping the world
- From: norbu . tragri
- Re: Helping each other vs. helping the world
- From: oxtail
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- From: norbu . tragri
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- From: Wompom
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