Re: Merely words (was Re: Agenda for Jigme's next return)



On Dec 31, 12:28 pm, Hollywood Lee <hollywood...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Evelyn wrote:

On Dec 31, 9:28 am, Hollywood Lee <hollywood...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Evelyn wrote:
Hi Keynes,
Welcome back, and happy New Year! No matter how crazy it gets here on
the newsgroups it is seldom THAT crazy! I think it was rather
amazingly rude of your relatives to try and push their beliefs onto
you, but I am sure you handled it well.
Today my fundamentalist Christian brother is coming to visit, with his
equally fundamentalist lady friend. They too, are very nice people,
and honestly I like them very much. We scrupulously avoid getting
into any kind of philosophical conflicts with one another because I do
dearly love my brother. He knows where I am coming from, and only a
very little of what I believe. He has been to KTD with me, and he was
respectful, but was inwardly and silently disapproving, I knew. He
knows better than to try to lay any trips on me, because he knows that
I am of a different mindset. We respect one anothers differences and
leave it at that.
In case you are interested I have a huge list of biblical errors and
other quotes, which in years past I emailed all over the place for
people who asked. It is quite useful in these kinds of situations.
It is my observation that when these fundies want to discuss with you,
their ONLY reference material is the bible, which is a very flawed
collection of documents. Few of them have ever taken the time to
actually cast a critical eye upon it, or to dare to analyze it with a
clear mind. They imagine it might even be sinful to do so. After
all, their imaginary god might get mad at them for doing so. So it is
completely unnerving if someone who has actually done this, points out
the anomalies in the whole scenario, because after all it isn't a
"whole" scenario, it is a carefully hand picked collection of
documents, some of which still present differing views in spite of the
attempts of its first editors, to find books that "matched".If you think pointing out Biblical contradictions will convince them to
drop their beliefs, then you just haven't met the web-savvy apologist.
Those trained in Biblical inerrancy will run circles around most
non-believers using arguments found on many Christian apologetic sites.
See, for example,http://www.carm.org/bible_difficulties.htm

But don't think these interpretive strategies are unique to
fundamentalist Christians. It has been my experience that any belief
system based on a set of scriptures develops a hermeneutic or
interpretive strategy that accommodates the written word to the belief
structure. I personally have my own interpretive strategy that
dispenses with many of the literal interpretations of the early Buddhist
canon.

I don't think it would dissuade them from their beliefs, for the very
reason we both discussed a couple of days ago, because faith seems to
come from some sort of an emotional part of ones consciousness, much
like love. But I think that if you can provide them with some
knowledge, even if they develop interpretive strategies as you say, it
leaves them with something to think about, and I guarantee you that
they WILL think about it. Sometime when a moment of clarity strikes,
there is a seed of knowledge there that can take root later. I think
about my own conversion, which really took place over many years. I
was every bit as big a "believer" as any of them are, and even for
years afterwards I still carried much of that same psychological belief
mechanism, or interpretive strategy along with me into buddhism. Only
after many years did I come to understanding a little more about what
was taking place. It was a process that took many years.

Like the zennies are often inclined to say "a journey of a thousand
miles begins with a single step" So I don't think that a bit of truth
dropped here and there will change anyones mind overnight, but it can
definitely be a seed for later realizations.It is always possible, I guess. It would be interesting to do a survey
of "conversion" experiences and find out what was the catalyst for
someone reorienting their belief system. After all, even the Buddha had
to almost kill himself before dropping all the nonsense.


Hi Lee,

Yes. Converting to another religion from another culture isn't a
simple thing.

I think there were many significant moments for me along the way. Let
me see... going way back. The failure of my first marriage was a big
one for me, and one of the very first clues I got that maybe the
biblically centered christian church I had been a part of was not the
perfect path I thought it was.

I got married at 17 and divorced at 22 with 2 children. I was a devout
christian teenager, because it was all that held me together with the
difficult childhood I had. I married a guy I met in church. We did
all the right things, albeit at a younger age than most. When we
split up (for very good reasons), I realized that I was only a kid
myself with two children to raise and it said right there in the bible
that a divorced person should not remarry. I knew right then and there
that something was VERY wrong with that whole philosophy if such a
glaring inequity was right there in black and white.

So I continued as a christian, but a slightly dislocated one, because I
knew that if the bible was wrong in that one very important point, it
could possibly be wrong in others. This was in the early 60's and just
then the world I had previously known was in a huge social and cultural
upheaval. For the young people of today, it would be difficult to
explain what the 60's meant. There was an incredible energy going on.
People questioned everything. I questioned everything too.

I began to read a lot..... books that had been suppressed or simply
were not available before, and it changed me irrevocably. I
discovered that I could trust myself and my own efforts and the
conclusions of my own mind, better than something written 2000 years
ago in some middle eastern backwater, and filtered down through
centuries of ignorance. I read everything I could get my hands on;
Lobsang Rampa (of course every 60's young person had to read him) and
Christmas Humphreys after that, and then so many more, including lots
of new age stuff.

At some point I began describing myself as a Christian-Buddhist.
Around then I got married to my second husband and had another child
with him, and spent many years working very hard to help support the
family.

Seventies women had to be perfect super women. They could work a 40
hour week and keep a perfect house and be a gourmet cook and raise
their kids and do it all. I was no different. I was killing myself
trying to be perfect. I had little time to read, but I did study a
little here and there. I joined a local church hoping to fit in, but
discovered yet again that there was no going back for me. I realized
that there was no niche for me to fit into. Then I joined a small new
age group, and again discovered it was a little too soupy-fakey- sweet
for me. There were absolutely NO buddhist resources in suburban NJ.
I knew that there was a Dharmadhatu in NY city, but it might as well
have been on the moon for its inacessability.

It was only in my late 30's when I was divorced yet again (thank
goodness for that!) and already with my present husband, living in
southern-upstate NY that I found a small tibetan buddhist center near
to my home. I called, began to sit several times a week with them,
met my teacher, took refuge, later continued on as the director of that
center, and I have never looked back again. That was in 1981.

I remember feeling as I took refuge that this was a VERY big step, and
I wasn't really all that sure. But I remember thinking how it was
very fortuitous, very lucky, and I felt that it was what I wanted to
do. I asked a couple of questions of my teacher, and he was such a
happy wonderful kind gentle guy. I felt it was OK then, and the right
thing for me to do.

I have never regretted it for a moment. My committment and interest in
buddhism has grown and changed over the years, but only for the better.
It was good in the beginning, the middle and I think it will be good
in the end too.

:-)

Regards,
Evelyn



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