Re: Wrong Focus (Was: Wrong Question)

Evelyn wrote:

On Dec 29, 6:54 pm, stumper <stum...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

was simply asking those
who actually knew him to speak out.

In my book,
habitual heavy drinking alone would disqualify anyone
from teaching spiritual matters in person.
Would you trust anyone who tells his/her students
to drink heavily everyday?


Hi Stumper,

In ordinary circumstances, yes it would disqualify them in my book.
But Trungpa wasn't in anyones book, he was something very different.
I know people who actually knew him and were his students.

I needed to enhance a bit more on something that I wrote earlier in a
hurry. The grandkids were here today and I didn't have time then, but
I was thinking about it, and came up with this little thought.

Supposing you were enlightened. You had lots of people who came to you
for teachings. Some of them understood very well and simply learned
from you. They were reverent towards you, but not worshipful. They
were those with only a little dust in their eyes. You knew they'd be
OK no matter what. They "got" it.

Others were so busy bowing and going through the motions of devotion
that they were getting lost in it. You knew it was wrong, and you
knew they were on the wrong path but you couldn't explain it to them.
(This scenario actually happened you know, with Krishnamurti and with
Osho too, so I hear). Those two simply quit. They left town. They
ran out altogether to escape the whole scene that was taking place,
since they knew it was the wrong way.

So in this fictitious scenario of this fictitious enlightened person,
perhaps they wanted to throw a monkey wrench into the whole mechanism
of this false "path of devotion" thing. Maybe by breaking some of the
rules, in the very way they saw their students exhibiting weakness....
through smoking and drinking. They knew that the sincere students
would be OK anyway... they were established in their practice and in
their own spiritual journey. But the devotion oriented students who
wanted to make you into some Godlike being, would be thrown for a loop
by your acting so unruly. It might actually throw them out of their
doldrums and shake their spiritual world a bit.

Now I am not saying that I know this is what happened, or that it is
right, or that it is what should be done. I am just thinking out of
the box a bit, and imagining.... reaching out and trying to see why.

You know the old "If you meet the buddha on the road, kill kim" story?
Perhaps it was Trungpa's way of taking the onus OFF of himself.
Making himself an ordinary flawed human being..... Perhaps that was his
ploy to stop students from taking the wrong path. He may have been
doing the "kill him" number on their image of himself, to help them.

I don't have many clever tales to tell, but I have heard a few about
monks who broke the rules in view of a greater picture. Do you recall
the story of the two monks traveling who came upon a rain swollen
stream with a pretty girl who was very upset because she couldn't get
across it? The one monk, without saying a word, simply picked her up,
carried her across and set her down on the other side. The second
monk was horrified that the first had touched a woman, and he was
sulking for a long time. The first monk asked him what was his
problem and when the second replied, he told him how awful a thing he
had done, in picking up this girl. The first monk said "I put her
down on the other side of the stream, YOU however, are still carrying
her"..

I have heard many tales like this about the meaning of "skillful
means," and I think that Trungpa must have had a reason, and he isn't
here to explain himself. It isn't like he did any real crime, you
know. But his reasons were his, not ours, and his reasoning as an
enlightened guy, might not relate to ours at all. Enlightened beings
may not have the same rules.

Just my few thoughts on the subject, and they could be totally all
wet.......

Regards,
Evelyn


I have no problem with
getting drunk or sleeping around
once in a while.
But if anyone is doing so habitually
while s/he is teaching in person,
I would seriously doubt her/his enlightenment.

Anyhow, there must be plenty of teachers
who are more to my taste.

I sure hope you don't get drunk
or sleep around habitually.
Especially not
when your children are around.

--
~Stumper
.