Re: I dig stumperings.....

Mayura wrote:
"Déjà Fu" <chanfu@xxxxxxxxx> wrote
brian mitchell wrote:
"Mayura" wrote (via Keynes):


P.S. Since my post to Brian Mitchell's didn't appear to fly...
(How irritating. I have the opposite problem, where my newsreader
doesn't "see" the posts of some posters to trb. I only know of them when
someone else quotes them. I can't explain it but suspect the CIA is
involved)


the shorter
answer to his main question is that if someone throws you a ball
slowly
enough for there to be conscious involvement (including 'thoughts') in
it,
the experience involves mentally 'carving' the ball from its field
etc. If,
to avoid a fly hitting your eyeball, you've blinked, too quickly for
there
to be conscious involvement, it's reasonable to infer that the
non-conscious
response still involved the 'server' 'carving' the fly from the field
etc...
Yes.

But 'dualism' really refers to the radical carving of the experiential
field into subjective and objective parts. Less thoughtful creatures
than us carve and respond and that's it (most probably). They don't go
round saying: "I must watch out for flying balls," or "why is someone
throwing balls at me?" You, I think, play a bit fast and loose with the
distinction between subjective experience and the neither subjective nor
objective carving/responding function of the senses.

It's interesting to consider where thought as such starts to mesh with
physical function. One can carve and respond to a flying object without
knowing what it is, only that something is headed towards you at speed.
One might not know because it was moving too fast or because one had
never encountered it before and so couldn't recognise it. Presumably,
with more time available, each of the senses could distinguish more
--shape, colour, etc-- and perceptive memory could supply knowledge,
type of movement --attack, game, accident, etc. But although all this
requires an acute sense of spatial relation on the part of the organism,
that still isn't a subjective viewpoint or reality. That doesn't seem to
get going until there's abstract thought, when thought concerns itself
not with current situations.

BM
Pity.

I always translate BM as "bowel movement" (nasty habit, eh?).
Whist Jon certainly plays "fast and loose" with whatever balls
he plays with...

Well, interpreting can be such a tricky business. For instance, how many
people knew that the "Eureka!" of Archimedes's bathtime shouting actually
meant, "It's mine. And I'll wash it as fast as I like!"? ;) Unfortunately,
my reply to another of your posts didn't appear to fly and unfortunately
with non-flying posts, it usually seems to be the content that won't fly by
any means (which was probably just as well as it was a bit Dodge-Pot
McDougall... although there was a quite excellent bit about sending some of
the staff at the bin, courtesy of 'The Great White Buffalo', a packet of
compost enriched with bison crap from the local bison farm gift shop's
'zoo-poo' range)

It can indeed.
Sorry, missed that entirely. But I've a hypothesis that
the (so-called) "internet" has been invaded by daemons who
will not allow anything but "content-free" messages to pass.
Hence, my new strategy!

It's been nearly 60 years since I became quite suspicious
about the staffers (ie: "sane people"). Did they actually
receive said packet and is there another episode wherein
they sniff at it, dump it in the garden, and various beanstalks
arise? (leading, of course, to various magic lands, heavens,
nirvanas, et al...)

I was very sympathetic to the link personage's stuff with a slight quibble
over "let people have their beliefs". My father used to say that (e.g. when
his brother used to tweak their Christian Scientist grandmother for the
entertainment value) and he used to just 'tolerate' them and 'humour' her
from a position of assumed superiority. But I don't know that the world
would be a lot happier if that approach was rolled out across it (although
it might be less miserable in some parts).

Ah, "Mrs. Cosmopilite", so to speak. Yes, she did seem to
underplay the entertainment value. I'd suspect the BBC (not
to mention the US Polimedia) would stand to make a batch of
nuggets from, say, a half-hour bit of buddhist monks parading
around the various synagogues and cathedrals of europe and
"blessing them" in the name of (whatever the name is). I'll
work on this - promoters get a nice slice of the quiche.

My approach varies on a case by case basis according to who is trying to
shove what up whose nose and my inferences about why and what they want of
me and so on. For instance, some people appear to want you to join their
club whereas others seem to want to do their little dance in front of you
but as soon as you or anyone wants to sign up, they start receding because
they'd cease to be unique or somesuch. ("Splitters!"). Some people appear to
want to find some decades-too-late parent figure who appears to 'care'
enough about them not to just avoid, ignore, tolerate or humour them.

Well, it's lots more fun when they actually knock on your
door and you step out in the street with them and say, "Let's
go tell (whoever)!" And they really don't know how to get out
of that, aside from pretending narcolepsy and feigning sleep
in the gutter.

One thing that strikes me about all this here belief malarkey is the
astonishing amount of energy put into 'inconsequential' beliefs. E.g. at
least with belief in extraterrestrial spacecraft or the survival of
experiencing past bodily death there's some imaginable future experience
that could settle the issue. But with a lot of these beliefs, there doesn't
even seem to be that. (I also see early Scepticism a bit like that). It's
like some kind of Quest for Impregnability. But the more impregnable a
belief, the less consequential and vice versa.

Quite. I believe in screws. But in "real life", I find them
extremely "consequential" (by the process of "removal")
Unfortunately, in the ones you seem to be referring to,
the "consequences" just don't seem to be either a. "consequential"
or b. "reported". That isn't to say I *don't* believe in nails.

A bit like this Atman/Nirvana kind of stuff. Philosophers go round and round
in circles trying to... erm... construct... something that with all the
advantages of invulnerability - retracting its toes out of the bus lane of
change and so forth. But then they also want to be able to get there from
here in the bus lane of change and have it be relevant to anyone's
experience and its existence be experientially verifiable/consequential etc.
Apparently, it definitely either is or isn't effable, attainable, arrivable
at by effort, a different way of seeing 'schmamshmara', a well of infinite
possibilities, something that is really there all the time but just
occluded, an experience, the real basis of everything unreal, etc. etc. I
mean, everything else we know about is an indissoluble fusion of conserved
and unconserved properties (albeit as an artifact of seeing or whatever) but
is that good enough? No. They want to catch the bus to the fortress of
infinite impregnability where no-one's troubled by buses.

Of course! There's hardly a point in my dissecting
this particular frog, since "Tat Tvam Asi" - (I am it).

ps, If it was Up To Me, I'd say your interpretation
is quite "good enough"... I've always had a bit of erm...
'trouble'? with the so-called "masters" (even AC, etc)
and their creation/interpretation of 'just being' as some
sort of absolute/fortress of infinite impregnability/
real home/(etc etc).

Thanks for the offer of chicken stroganoff recipes and junk DNA and because
I'm hellishly impressed with your knowledge of maths, physics and musical
instrumentation I feel duty bound to reward you by explaining how to play in
E minor. Draw 12 circles. Draw 12 consecutive semitones around the outsides
(a bit like that Dependent Origination thing. I understand it pretty well
now apart from one crucial bit of information. No-one seems to be able to
tell me which one's 'Capricorn' ;) Add three dots to each where the notes of
the Em triad go. Add three dots to each going through the 12 major triads.
put 12 dashed lines through the 12 axes of symmetry. Fill symmetrically (or
as close as possible) according to taste. Use Em as the connector between 12
major forms on each fret each somewhat like a door to a different musical
'world'.

Jonathan

Actually, that was the first key I ever played in.
If you take your excellent example to start and
evolve it into all possible 12-note keys, in a layered
projection, you'll find it constructs a multi-Log-E spiral
with 144 starting points and you can do what you're
suggesting both within and among the keys.

Lovely dissertation, btw. As for your football skills,
it was only a wild guess. I still maintain my FIFA
"C" coach license.
.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Nabucco Rethought????
    ... terms of what we consider 'flies', but as something more akin to bees. ... suggested on this very board that one should watch them play to gain ... that is the only irony of his posts. ... poster on the issue of capital punishment. ...
    (rec.music.opera)
  • Re: Nabucco Rethought????
    ... terms of what we consider 'flies', but as something more akin to bees. ... suggested on this very board that one should watch them play to gain ... that is the only irony of his posts. ... poster on the issue of capital punishment. ...
    (rec.music.opera)
  • Re: I dig stumperings.....
    ... doesn't "see" the posts of some posters to trb. ... You, I think, play a bit fast and loose with the ... here in the bus lane of change and have it be relevant to anyone's ... infinite impregnability where no-one's troubled by buses. ...
    (talk.religion.buddhism)
  • Top Reasons to Watch "King of Vegas
    ... I've read a few posts about this show, and I have to say I agree with ... the posters who say it is pretty bad. ... then having to play baskeball against Michael Jordan (well maybe Dennis ... The fact that they use the same crowd noise they used in American ...
    (rec.gambling.poker)
  • Re: Nabucco Rethought????
    ... terms of what we consider 'flies', but as something more akin to bees. ... but I suspect that it gives one a nugget of what might have started ... You know that REG does not read your posts. ... poster on the issue of capital punishment. ...
    (rec.music.opera)