Re: Re: Zen in the Pali Texts

Hello,

Hello

thanks.

you are welcome.

I think all can perceive 7 on and off to some degree,
sometimes I don't feel it is true, yet, I perceive it as true. I think
7 is just summary of 5 and 6.

that isn't how I experience it.

7 is a more refined mental process than the previous ones.

When one attained full knowledge (8),

8 [neither perception nor non perception] is not full knowledge, it is just the
finest mental process attainable while mental feeling [emotion] is still active.

The next "state" called "the ending of perception and feeling" is also not
enlightenment. As I pointed out, Enlightenment is the "ending of greed, hatred
and ignorance". One could attain all these 8 states and still have those.

then 5/6/7 has no use nor meaning. So I think "clear knowledge of the
texts and personal experience" is refering to the
perception/interpretation of the forms (including text)

of course

which affirms 5/6/7.

I don't see how, for all 5-8 are states without form.

I think to arrive at 8, one to perceive 7 completely for an
instant.

No, 8 is an even more refined mental process than the previous ones and each one
will be experienced for more than a moment, before moving on to the next. Each
must be mastered before moving on to the next.

Maybe that's what happened during your meditation!

No, :-)

Cheers
Norman Joseph Smith [Joe]


Mr Norman Smith wrote:
Hi All

cut...

This is how I sumarise the 8 states of Zen from the Paali texts:

Ruupa-jhaana : Form-states

1: study and reflection, developing an hypothesis for action
2: putting the hypothesis in to action, testing it
3: experiencing the benefit of the testing
4: taking time out, to relax and just focus on breathing/sitting

The fourth one here seems always to be necessary to move on to the next:

Aruupa-jhaana: Formless-states

5: perception of unlimited space
6: perception of unlimited consciousness
7: perception of nothingness
8: neither perception nor non perception

This is how I see these things, that has brought great benefit to me and greatly
improved my practice. It comes from clear knowledge of the texts and personal
experience. I hope it is helpful. Please let me know if so, or otherwise.


.

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