Re: Baha'u'llah's "Most Pure Tablet" Released in English Translation

On Apr 5, 3:08 am, "Shahriar" <frein...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I am afraid I don't understand what you mean by hard-core Bahai. If you mean
you were listed, left your pocket change in the fund box and read a prayer
or two in the feast and took part in discussions etc., well, you were just
member of an organization that happen to do those things now and then. But
if you tell me that for some 4 years you believed that Bahaullah was the
divine savior of humanity for this age, I'll say you were probably kidding
yourself. Because even in your hard-core years you always disagreed with
some of what He said yet kept it to yourself.

And guess what, probably 90%+ of people who are members of the Baha'i
organization also disagree with some of what Baha'u'llah said yet keep
it to themselves. That's true of people in any religious organization
-- most of them won't publicly admit it, but they have their doubts
and disagreements with some of what the founder of their religion
taught, whether it was Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, whoever.

You may have thought that you
have believed, but belief is all together a totally different story. It
doesn't wear off, it gets stronger and stronger as challenges come along and
life gets harder.

True belief CAN and DOES wear off in the case of some people.
Historical case in point: Saul (Paul) of Tarsus. He was a very
strongly believing Pharisee whose belief in this type of Judaism wore
off when he decided to believe in the faith of Jesus Christ instead.
To say that he never truly believed in Pharisaic Judaism simply
because he at some point decided no longer to believe in it, is
absurd. You are suggesting that one can never change one's mind about
one's beliefs based on further thought or evidence that shows one's
beliefs to have been wrong. You are falling for the "no true
Scotsman" fallacy, a classic logical fallacy. Because some Baha'is
clearly do stop being Baha'is, you simply alter the claim to be that
"No TRUE Baha'i could ever stop being a Baha'i." I call BS.

The writings of Bahaullah are not considered divine by billions of people,
one more or one less doesn't make it any less divine for a believer and more
divine for a none-believer.

It doesn't matter how many people believe something is divine. It
either is or it isn't. Either Baha'is are right and Baha'u'llah's
writings were divinely inspired, or non-Baha'is are right and they
were inspired by his own mind. These two truth claims cannot be true
simultaneously.

You are just among many. more often many westerners follow the same path,
they judge divines by their own presumed acquired set of beliefs. That's
what Bahaullah calls "Idol fancy".

I have tried to evaluate Baha'u'llah's life and ideas by looking at
how much he transcended his own culture and time in which he lived. I
eventually came to the conclusion that in many ways he did not live
the kind of transcendent life or produce the kind of transcendent
ideas that one would expect from someone who claims to be representing
God. Therefore, I stopped believing in his claims of spiritual
authority.

In general a belief in manifestation of God demands total resignation in
oneself.

I would argue that this is not just belief, but fanaticism -- and that
this kind of "total resignation" that you talk about is dangerous to
the world. People are supposed to remain thinking beings, and
religion should never try to take that away from a person.

A true believer, on the other hand, has come to conclusion and is free of
any doubt that the words of His manifestation are indeed the very existence
of life, His words are what the universe is, from His words thereof any life
begins and continues. His words are the essence and the Balance of
existence. He says be and then there is. That is just one word, "be".

Total fanaticism. Dangerous to the world. NO ONE should EVER think
this way about a fellow human being's words, not even the words of
Jesus (and I say that as a Christian).

Again, your words, "on the other hand remain for a short while and then get
deleted', as does your life.

Spoken like a true Baha'i. Because I do not support your religion, my
life shall be deleted. Everyone who doesn't support Baha'ism is
worthless and shall be deleted. No contribution that a non-Baha'i
makes in life could ever be worth anything to the world, because,
after all, he has failed to recognize the Manifestation of God and
therefore his deeds are meaningless.

It is precisely this kind of fanatical religious attitude that is
MORALLY RESPONSIBLE for the deaths of millions of people in wars,
torture chambers, crematoria, and other religiously-inspired evil
actions throughout history. People who believe in a more rational,
inclusive, and world-improving version of spirituality have hard work
to do to clean up the karmic mess left by religious fanatics -- and I
have no doubt in my mind that if the Baha'i Faith ever got the kind of
power it desires, its encyclopedia entry some day would include
heinous crimes against humanity. Thank God, the Baha'i Faith will
never attain that power, because most people can see that this
religion is already outdated and offers little of value that cannot
already be found in other spiritual traditions.

Eric




"Eric Stetson" <ericstet...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:c7019f10-afb5-4c9e-a111-1738148f9282@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Apr 4, 2:28 pm, "Shahriar" <frein...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Eric,

I presume you were not a Bahai long enough or deep enough to actually have
sat and thought about the writings Bahaullah at every dawn and eventide.

Actually, Shahriar, I was a hard-core Baha'i for 4 years.  I read and
studied many books of Baha'i scripture and was quite serious about it.

If you did, perhaps, you would have understood that it has not been about
what
He said only, but the effect of what He said on your world.

That's exactly my point.  Baha'is like to say that Baha'u'llah was
such an important, world-transforming spiritual leader, but in
reality, his writings had very little effect on the world.  Claiming
that the advancement of society has been due to Baha'u'llah is like
claiming that the increase in people's frequency of bathing has been
due to Baha'u'llah's nonexistent "Most Pure Tablet."

Many people tend to take their current life style and conveniences as
granted. Many do not remember or believe that there has been a time where
T.V. did not exist and that cell phones did not grew on trees.
From the time Bahaullah said what He did till now the world has seen
extraordinary changes towards the betterment of humanity and will stay on
advancing course for indefinite future.

And Baha'u'llah had very little to do with that.

Today, People of understanding do
pause and think and appreciate the advances brought to them for their
happiness and ease of life. You may want to look into your country of
residence to see how it had been in 19th century and how it is now. Future
is glorious beyond comprehension, but if you sat and thought of what
Bahaullah said then you may decipher what the future may look like. What
he
said act as potent germinated seeds which in time come to manifest their
true hidden meaning.

The more I have looked at Baha'u'llah's writings and thought about
them, the less impressive they have seemed to me, and the more I am
able to understand him as simply a man of his time and culture who was
far from the transcendent figure he claimed to be.  It's true that
some of his ideas were relatively progressive, but other of his ideas
were not, and even the progressive ideas he shared were already being
promoted by others in a more effective way.

On the other hand, what you said in your remain exposed for a short while
and then deleted.

Well, my April 1 post was simply a joke, so I don't expect it to enter
the history books.  So I fail to see how there is any comparison.

Eric





Best

"Eric Stetson" <ericstet...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:b5741b9a-a6ba-4a1d-a003-d809b2115766@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Apr 4, 7:48 am, ÃäÇ æÇÞÝ Úáì ØÊäÌíä æ äÇÙÑ Úáì ÇáãÛÑÈíä æ ÇáãÔÑÞíä

<wahidaza...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Apr 4, 8:10 am, "Asparagus" <k...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

One should note that the divine presence hereabouts was fooled by it
...
whilst the personification of evil i.e. moi wasn't!

Not at all, terrorist. Eric Stetson posted an unimaginative plagiarism
of crock Husayn 'Ali Nari has already said elsewhere in other
contexts. We don't make light of the devil, even when he is being
ridiculed. What Stetson did wasn't much of an April fool's joke at all
because Nari has already said BS like this.

Actually, that was the main point of the joke. I wrote some
ridiculous-sounding stuff and attributed it to Baha'u'llah, and yet it
is virtually indistinguishable both thematically and stylistically
from his own published writings (the English translations, of
course). I was illustrating the fact that much of what Baha'u'llah
wrote was overly pompous, judgmental, and not very profound -- and
that nevertheless, Baha'is think it was great stuff.

Eric- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

.

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