Re: Three Approaches to Understanding the term "Aghsán"

On Aug 17, 3:48 am, Jeffrey <Jeffrey...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Aug 15, 2:42 pm, Sufi Bahá'í <pe...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:





I'm guessing your first language is not English since your
interpretation implies a structure that doesn't exist in the English
language...

You carefully avoid the question of showing me a passage where Shoghi
Effendi refers to a non-descendant of Baha'u'llah as "Aghsan." He
simple did not. His brother, whom he ostracizes as un-worthy is still
an Aghsan by birth.

But let's look at some quotes. Here again note the world "hereditary,"
without any modifiers.

The Document establishing that Order, the Charter of a future world
civilization, which may be regarded in some of its features as
supplementary to no less weighty a Book than the Kitáb-i-Aqdas; signed
and sealed by 'Abdu'l-Bahá; entirely written with His own hand; its
first section composed during one of the darkest periods of His
incarceration in the prison-fortress of 'Akká, proclaims,
categorically and unequivocally, the fundamental beliefs of the
followers of the Faith of Bahá'u'lláh; reveals, in unmistakable
language, the twofold character of the Mission of the Bab; discloses
the full station of the Author of the Bahá'í Revelation; asserts that
"all others are servants unto Him and do His bidding"; stresses the
importance of the Kitáb-i-Aqdas; establishes the institution of the
Guardianship as a hereditary office and outlines its essential
functions;

(Shoghi Effendi, God Passes By, p. 327)

Another nail in the coffin of your other theories I'm afraid...
unless you want to invent "spiritual primogeniture" as well..

in the verses of the Kitáb-i-Aqdas the implications of which clearly
anticipate the institution of the Guardianship; in the explanation
which 'Abdu'l-Bahá, in one of His Tablets, has given to, and the
emphasis He has placed upon, the hereditary principle and the law of
primogeniture as having been upheld by the Prophets of the past -- in
these we can discern the faint glimmerings and discover the earliest
intimation of the nature and working of the Administrative Order which
the Will of 'Abdu'l-Bahá was at a later time destined to proclaim and
formally establish.

(Shoghi Effendi, The World Order of Baha'u'llah, p. 146)

This one pretty much affirms that Shoghi Effendi was an adherent of
what you call the "sperm theory." It's up to you if you want to
ridicule Shoghi Effendi by calling his statement "sperm theory" or
not....

Divorced from the institution of the Guardianship the World Order of
Bahá'u'lláh would be mutilated and permanently deprived of that
hereditary principle which, as 'Abdu'l-Bahá has written, has been
invariably upheld by the Law of God. "In all the Divine
Dispensations," He states, in a Tablet addressed to a follower of the
Faith in Persia, "the eldest son hath been given extraordinary
distinctions. Even the station of prophethood hath been his
birthright."

(Shoghi Effendi, The World Order of Baha'u'llah, p. 148)

This argument is tiresome, there's a reason when Jacques, Joel, Laura
and Neil can't manage to get more followers globally than the Haifa
crowd has in a single large city. Shoghi Effendi never appointed a
successor and if he had the person would have had to be Aghsan...

On Aug 15, 10:15 am, Jeffrey <Jeffrey...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Aug 15, 9:11 am, Sufi Bahá'í <pe...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

This is the only one that Shoghi Effendi and his secretaries used.
You have the Afnan as descendants of the Bab and the Aghsan as
descendants of Baha'u'llah. It's all pretty clear in the writings of
the Guardian, even his brother whom he dismisses as unworthy for
marrying a "low born Christian girl" is still an Aghsan in spite of
being a Covenant Breaker. If Aghsan were a spiritual relationship,
the brother would not be an Aghsan.

In your zeal to believe in "magic sperm" you are misplacing your
argument. The concept of spiritual branchhood has to do with the
succession of guardians. As Shoghi Effendi explicitly stated, the
Guardianship SYMBOLIZES the hereditary principle. That is, actual
blood line relationships are not required. The Guardian's hands are
not tied in appointing his successor.

Jeffrey

On Aug 11, 8:14 pm, Jeffrey <Jeffrey...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

1) Magic Sperm: The first approach is the belief that only one of the
Sons of Baha'u'llah, or at least a male blood-line descendant, is
eligible for appointment as Guardian. This is the majority Baha'i
view represented by those Bahais who presently occupy Haifa and
Wilmette (the heterodox Baha'is). I consider this concept to be the
"magic sperm" theory carrying the implicit belief that there is some
magical essence in the bloodline of Baha'u'llah that is necessary for
one to be divinely guided. Although this is a highly superstitious
and materialistic point of view, there is an historical basis for this
in Islamic belief. For example, the descendants of the Prophet
Muhammad are considered to have some special status or respect. The
idea of blood royalty found in many of the systems of government
historically also carry this idea that the genetic code of certain
families carries with it some kind of magical power or essence.

If we carry the logic of this belief to its extreme, we would consider
what would happen if the genetic material of Shoghi Effendi were
cloned. We would have an exact duplicate of Shoghi Effendi's genetic
makeup, but of course physically we would end up with his cloned
identical twin. It would be a different person entirely and would not
be the Guardian. Of course, if we could do this, we could clone
Baha'u'llah Himself, but of course we would end up with a cloned human
being and not the Manifestation of God for this Day. There is no
magic in their genetic material. This example does not intend any
disrespect, but merely to show absurd it is to insist that only a
physical relative of Baha'u'llah could possibly serve as Guardian.

Shoghi Effendi, from the Dispensation of Baha'u'llah:

"Moreover, he who symbolizes the hereditary principle in this
Dispensation has been made the interpreter of the words of its Author,
and ceases consequently, by virtue of the actual authority vested in
him, to be the figurehead invariably associated with the prevailing
systems of constitutional monarchies."
The World Order of Baha'u'llah, p. 153

The Guardian symbolizes the hereditary principle. This goes hand in
hand with the quotations of Baha'u'llah from Nosrat, to demonstrate
that we are talking about a spiritual relationship here, not a
material one!

"hereditary principle" is established through the blood line. Husayn-
Ali compared himself with adivine tree.
He gave same authority to all of his branches (to interpret his
words).
That makes Muhammad Ali as well as Badiullah authorised to interpret
his words in the same way as Abbas did.
When one branch cuts of other branches, there appears these scenarios:
- The father erred
- The son (abbas) erred
- The son (Muhammad Ali erred).
taking any of these scenarios will bomerang on the tree itself.

Also, Abbas envisaged that Shoghi's son and his continued blod line
would sit at the top of the board of members in the Bahai chamber. The
only little it bity thing they forgot to consider and could not
foresee was that the blood line can be cut off and all plans for
having someone in the family in charge go down the tube.



Jeffrey- Hide quoted text -

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