Paul Hammond's post of 2nd June - Part 2




"The authority of the next manifestation" in no way disproves the
existence of a primary school for HWGSMM.

Also true.

However, this tablet we are talking about is not talking about a
physical primary school.
I am sick of asking you for your reasonings for saying so because you
have none or conflict yourself.
Above I asked you why and your reason was leaning on "spiritual
authority of HWGSMM". Here, first you agree that it has nothing to do
with it (i.e. rejecting your earlier reason) and yet repeat your
claim.
It is obvious to me that you are trying to make me loose you by
running around yourself.


Isn't that a mind-blowing concept?

That would be a twisted concept.

Of course, your god is limited by human concepts of time
and identity -

Bull***!

Bullhookey!
My concept of god comes from what I consider to be directly form God
itself.
You say you are an unbeliever, where does yours comes from? If it
comes from yourself then it is limited by something that is much more
limited than time and identity.


the Bab *wasn't* the spiritual return of
Jesus at all, right?

Was he? Where is your reference?
Bayan says, the Primal Point is the same as the Point of Quran with a
more exalted station.
HWGSMM will be the same as the Primal Point with a more exalted
station.

I think it's a brilliant idea.

What? Your mental masturbation".

Yeah, of course. I love wanking my brain!

Stop being a silly prat, Steve.
Whilst you wrere trying to develop your own imagination on contrasting
the authority of HWGSMM with all the people and HWGSMM. Igave you what
comes directly from the same author cncerning the station and
authority of HWGSMM.
In presence of clear and present statement on the authority of HWGSMM,
there is no need for your personal interpretations.




Of course, YOU think it means that because of your special position
of wanting to convince us all that Baha'u'llah was the devil.

No silly. I am telling you that is the direct implication of the title
of the tablet.

And I AM TELLING YOU THAT THIS IMPLICATION ONLY EXISTS
IN YOUR MIND.

Respond to my arguments. That is in my mind.

Is so. Is not. Is so. Is not.

Is this getting us anywhere? I have responded. Quite often now.
This is a bloody
long post, now.

Tell me about it! Unless you respond to my arguments without pointing
me to the whole tblet and say there it is, you have not substantiated
your claims.


But there is NOTHING AT ALL CLEAR in this letter that suggests
the Bab is saying "HWGWMM has not yet been born".

That is not yet born is established in Bayan where it decrees the
embryo is pure for the sake of HWGSMM.

Huh? What the *** does that mean.

Went over your head, didn't it?

It wasn't correctly constructed English. If you want to try to write
that
sentence again, I might have a chance of knowing what "the embryo
is pure for the sake of HWGWMM" means and how it relates to anything.
It means the embryo in Bayan (unlike in Islam) is considered
ceremonially clean. It is considered so, such that the station of
HWGSMM is established at the time of the establishment of His first
cells.
As with other provisions, although it says the provision is for the
sake of the HWGSMM, it has other implications. It nullifies what is in
Islam where the child born out omarriage is considered a ***.

That is why I am telling you that it is a waste of time with you.
You are clueless to most of the things I quote from Bayan.
You do not have what I would be interested in: Bahai response based on
Bahai positions supported by Bahai references and relying on the
Bayanic scriptures.

Well, hang out the flags! Steve finally accepts that I am not Baha'i!
The flags have been hung out by you all over the place.
Read again: "Bahai response based on Bahai positions supported by
Bahai references and relying on the Bayanic scriptures".
I am not saying from a Bahai Person but a Bahai response and I
explained what I meant by it.


Sorry, but you can't dictate the qualifications of who talks to you on
the internet.
You didn't get it. I am not dicating. I am saying you are not an
interesting subject to me.




The minimum implication of this tablet and What is in Bayan, is that
HWGSMM is yet to attend the primary school.

No, it doesn't mean that at all. How can it possibly mean that? I
mean, Baha'u'llah was already two years older than the Bab.

Exactly my point. Husayn-Ali could not be HWGSMM.

But, Baha'is interpret things differently - and their arguments are
equally valid with yours.
Ha! Ha! Ha!
Husay-Ali's arguments are that:
1- He dd not attend any school, which you have refuted.
2- The did not study Bayan, which you have refuted.
3- HWGSMM is no ignorant adolescent (to attend a physical school)
Therefore the school was not a physical school.

And they are not valid reasons. You yourself have conceded they are
not.


Now, for Husayn-Ali to come out and say: "we entered the school of God
while you were reclining .." is just irrelevant.

Why? Because YOU SAY SO?

No. I explained. and I do that again:
That there is some sort of "school in heaven" has nothing to do with

HELLO? I spent a couple of paragraphs in the last post explaining to
you
that "Spiritual School" means a spiritual metaphor for power on
EARTH, and that it doesn't mean "School in Heaven" at all.

You better stick to your previous interpretation of 'school of
God' (being the meanings) as your new one contradicts your Aqdas.

Hang on a minute - just a second ago you were saying that you weren't
interested in talking to me because I'm a non-Baha'i.
Just a second ago I did tell you that you do not support your Bahai
claim (that the school was not a physical school) using Bahai reasons.


Now we are back to "this contradicts your Aqdas, so you can't say
that".
It is your Aqdas because you have systematically and continously
supported the Bahai claims.

Okay - firstly, I'm not accepting YOUR interpretation of the Aqdas,
written
by the guy you say is a charlatan.
No! You do accept my interpretation. See 1 and 2 above.

And secondly I'm not Baha'i!
You are not a Bahai in an academic sense, in other words you are not
enroled as such. You are a Bahai by your systematic and continous
support for the Bahai claims.
To me you are a Bahai but not versed in the Bahai or Bayanic history
or writings.


Explain to me what is in the tablet that refutes my reasons I stated
for the school being a physical school. And explain why it cannot be a
physical school!

See above.
I looked up. It says: "I have responded."
Further above, says: "I've already said, several times in this
response."
Further ABOVE, SAYS: "I have responded to all, except for the second
half of my post which got lost in the internet last week.
Further above, says: "I have however looked into yours and brought
reasons as to why they are crap."
Further above, says: "You have brought arguments for it which I *have*
refuted."
Further above, we finally find something but with no reasons: "It has
language and linguistic concepts that are beyond the understanding of
a 10 year old child."
Should I go much further?




Indeed, I even agreed with you that for the Bab to be talking
about a School in Heaven would be an utterly ridiculous
concept.

And indeed, one of the things the tablet says is the authority of
HWGSMM.
But what that has to do with disproving the tablet illuminating a
physical school.

Okay - what is the physical interpretation of "dismiss all the people
of the Bayan"?
As I explained. Disimissing means declaring as unbelievers and people
of Hell-Fire which is the most inferior spiritual station one a soul
can have.

HOw big was this school?
Silly question. The size of the physical school is of no consequence.
The dismissal has nothing to do with the school. Theere is nothing to
suggest that the dismissal is to occur in the school.

And when were
all the people of the Bayan going to fit into it?
People of Bayan and the schools are two different things here. The
tablet is to adorne the schools. The tablet says any Bayani remaining
in Bayan, 19 year into the next resurrection is not considered a
believer.
These re two different things. You are pipelining the title which
simply recommends the schhols to be adorned with the tablet with the
body of the tablet which talks about HWGSMM waiting for 19 years into
the next resurrection before He dismisses people of Bayan.
The dismissal does not occur over radio, TV, Sat., or etc. The simple
statement of today is the first day of the new era will be sufficient.


What is the metaphysical interpretation of "suckling milk from
mother's breast".

See above.
Nice handball. It is obvious that declaration of the dismissal is not
expected from an infant. It is simply a statement of the authority of
HWGSMM to be with Him even at such early stage of His Human life.
That is the bit that talks about dismissing people of Bayan with a
wawe of His finger at such early age. What is however clear is that
the reference to HWGSMM at infancy and suckling milk from the breast
of His mother refers to the fact that HWGSMM will have His infancy in
the Bayanic cycle and not in the Islamic cycle as Husayn-Ali was.
To this (i.e. the stage of the human life of HWGSMM suckles milk from
the breast of His mother), you have NOT provided any other
interpretation.

What is the metaphysical interpretation of illumination.

See above again.
You have developed a metaphor for not answering the questions.
Your entire interpretation was this : "Well, my mind gets
illuminated." As an (only) English speaking person you were left with
understanding the word 'illuminate' in its English context. This can
be excused.
You were however provided with the original word 'munavvar' and its
context in Iranian culture in great detail. You ignored. This is not
excusable.


What has "knowing the tablet without reading it" got to do with
progressive revelation?

Nothing. And I never said it had. See above.

"knowing without reading" is the definition of innate knowledge.
The "knowing without reading" and "the school of God" were used by
Husayn-Ali to reason against the physicality of the school because as
Husayn-Ali claims HWGSMM is no ignorant adolescent to go to school.
These have nothing to do with the physicality or spirituality of the
school and for that reason I branded them as irrelevant up front.
You also agreed that Husayn-Ali did go to school and has studied Bayan
as a Babi. Both are rejected by Husayn-Ali to reason against the
physicality of the school.


And yet, here is that "School in Heaven" concept back again.

Who said "school in Heaven"? It wasn't me. You're arguing with
yourself here.

Husayn-Ali says he "entered the school of God". You tell me where that
is.

Right. So now we're going to mix up the interpretation of this tablet
with
some other occassion when Baha'u'llah mentioned the "school of God".
Nop! There is no mix up. The section in Aqdas is in direct response to
this very tablet. This is certified by the introduction to the Aqdas.


I think you've got enough things mixed up already.
You are doing it to yourself.

"School in Heaven" was one of your mis-interpretations of my arguments
last time around. Let's stick to the things I actually have said and
stop trying to muddy the waters.
The "school in Heaven" is simply the 'School of God". The school of
God can't be on earth, can it? So it must be in Heaven.
You cannot dictate to me that I cannot bring evidence from other very
related sources.


What is it that you say you understand from "the primary school of
HWGSMM"?
Don't ramble about HWGSMM having known about the tablet without having
to have read it.

I haven't. I am quite clear that Baha'u'llah claiming innate
knowledge has
no bearing whatsoever on what the Bab means by "primary school".

It is you who have insisted on dragging in this particular red
herring.
This red herring was introduced by Husayn-Ali by saying that he had
entered the school of god and he was no ignorant adolescent to go to
school and he had not attended any school.
At first you kept insisting on Husayn-Ali implying that he had innate
knowledge and I kept saying that it had nothing to do with the
physicality of the school, a point you have conceded.


This does not in any way say that the "primary school of HWGSMM" is
anything other than what it is.

Please make the referent to "this" explicit.
"This" is the "innate knowledge" claimed by Husayn-Ali having attended
'school of god' stated by me as some sort of school in heaven and as
his argument against the physicality of the school and rejected by you
as red-herrong and by me as irrelevant.




the title of this tablet and what is in Bayan.That HWGSMM would go to
a primary school has nothing to do with the "heavenly school".
The parents of HWGSMM would put their children to the primary school
just like all other children.

Yes. They did this when Baha'u'llah was 7, in around 1825.

Excellent. So what is Husayn-Ali saying in Aqdas: "We have not entered
any school".

We are told of a response by Abbas to to Bayanis concerning this
tablet in a book called "Divine Dinning Table" (medeh asmani) that
Abbas says the school of HWGSMM is not the school of the young lads
and not the school of the ignorant children, but the school of meaning
and utterance.

Well, that sounds reasonable. The "school of meaning and utterance"
is not the school of the young lads or the ignorant children.

This is Abdu'l Baha saying what I'm saying.
That you and Bahais and Abbas And Husayn-Ali agreeing the school was
not a physical school is not news.
The only thing that makes you or Abbas claiming that the school meant
in the title is not a physical school is its consequence that HWGSMM
would be young enough to attend a physical school.
You have already conceded that based not on this tablet but on the
basis of the passage in Bayan that HWGSMM would attend school.
You have already shattered the basis for Abbas or his father for
saying that the school was not a physical one.
You however have stated other reasons such as : "The tablet is
difficult to understand for children of that age" and that "it was
about the authority of HWGSMM".
By saying "the school of HWGSMM is not the school of the young lads
and not the school of the ignorant children", they are saying that
there is no such thing as a physical school for HWGSMM, otherwise
their whole argument falls apart. You however have already pulled the
chair from underneath their bums.


the "school of meaning and utterance" is clearly not a physical
place, but a concept.
That is a statement with no proof or substance. You do not agree with
Abbas or Husayn-Ali's reasons and I have pulled the plug on your so
called reasons.


Husayn-Ali in his tiny Aqdas dedicates a good portion to defend
himself against the implication of this tablet and iterates that the
school was created by God and he entered it before anything was
created.

Husayn-Ali is claiming to have the innate knowledge associated
with a Manifestation.

The whole thing makes no sense.

Yes, it does make sense.
To "have innte knowlede" having anything to do with the physicality of
the school as an argument raised by Husayn-Ali makes no sense.


The one who could have known
anything before the creation of anything is God.

Yeah. And when the Manifestation considers himself from the correct
angle, he looks like God, right?

Isn't that what you believe?
What we believe is this: God speaks through the mouthpiece of its
manifestation. That is when the Point says: "Verilly, I am God", it is
God who says that not Sayyid Ali Muhammad the son of Reza the cloth
merchant.


As I said Husayn-Ali
must have been allegedly quoting God. The question is why would God
want to leave something for Himself to know?

Ah! NOW I have the answer.

"What was meant to be illuminated"?

Humanity!
You still have not told me why you think 'school house' means
humanity, after all, it is the 'school house' that is illuminted.


Of course God would not need to tell God what he already knows.

But *really* the Bab's message is to the "people of Bayan" - it
is for them to know that the helpless infant *really* has
authority to dismiss them all.

Good question!

Unless the purpose of it
is for the creatures to read. And, there is plenty to read for His
creatures to read in this tablet.

Of course.
Of course: Husayn-Ali erred to reason that the school was "the school
of God" because such school would be for ignorant lads and that he had
known about the tablet before it was written and therefore the school
could not be a physical one.
That the tablet would be for the benefit of all creatures was
something that I argued for and that by Husayn-Ali to have known about
it would not dimisnish its significance for people of Bayan and hence
adorning of the schools as a fundamental institution not only to dress
it with something spiritual but to recite from it and understand its
terms and references.


Here is the guts of your and Bahai line of defence:
The school is not a physical school because:-
HWGSMM knows the contents of the tablet without having to read it,

Nope. The fact that Baha'u'llah claims innate knowledge is irrelevant
to
the contents of this tablet - as I've said several times now.
Perfect. I said this in the first post that Husayn-Ali saying he went
to school of god as an argument against the physicality of the school
was irrelevant.


therefore the entire premise for a physical school disappears and
therefore its implication against Husayn-Ali to have been 40 years old
at the time of his claim does not stand.
HWGSMM is not an ignorant child (to go to a physical school).
The tablet talks louds the authority of HWGSMM.

Did I miss anything?

Everything, apparently.

The only point above that *is* one that I have made is the last one:

"The table lauds the authority of HWGWMM"
By agreeing that the "innate knowledge" has nothing to do with the
physicality of the school, Husayn-Ali's entire premise against
physicality of the school disappears.
But you think you know better than Husayn-Ali.
You have already agreed that elsewhere in Bayan it does talk about the
possibility of HWGSMM to go to school and therefore your disagreement
that such provision would not nullify Husayn-Ali's claim is only
laughable.


The school is not a physical school because the import of
the tablet is to develop a metaphor about the spiritual
authority of the next manifestation, and to warn the
people of the Bayan to accept his authority.
I like the 'because' bit here. As I said many times the statement of
the authority is in the context of the 'dismissal in 19 years into the
next resurrection'.
Let's pretend that the entire body of the tablet louds the authority
of HWGSMM and there is nothing else.
You need to do one thing at least: What has the statement of the
authority got to do wit the non-physicality of the school referred to
in the title?
You seem to think you have discovered something even Husayn-Ali
himself did not.


I didn't refer to your apology for the tablet
What is that supposed to mean?

being too 'long', I know you are by now embarassed about it.

My argument never depended on this point in the first place.
Bull***! You are the one embarrassed by it as you did accept to be
wrong on it. It was one of your first so called arguments.

And, no, I am not embarrassed by it. I still think that trying to
teach primary school kids this tablet and these concepts
is an example of trying to get someone to run before they
can walk.
Oh! Yes you are. You are changing your dance steps. That the text was
too difficult to be understood is different to the text beeing too
long.
Your claim that it is too difficult to be understood is nonesense and
I have explained why.
I can also disprove this claim of yours in yet another way: The
maturity age according to Bayan is 11 yearsold which falls well in the
range of the age for the primary schools (7-12) which means reciting
daily prayers becomes compulsory for an 11 year old student.
Some of the prayers could be considered even more difficult than the
text of the tablet in question, and they don't just recite them, they
ought to understand them.
Moreover, I have already entioned that the adorning of the school with
that text achieves a spiritual beauty to the building which is also
common in Islamic archeology. Many enter such buildings enjoying the
site and the inscriptions on the walls without having to read or
understand them.


The sole purpose of the tablet is NOT for HWGSMM to read this tablet.

Of course, how could it have been?
But that is Husayn-Ali's arguement against the physicality of the
school. Husayn-Ali says he had read it in the school of god and hence
the school was not a physical school.


Therefore by HWGSMM to have known about it does not eliminate the
premise that it is a physical school.

Indeed not. And this is an argument I have never made.
Bingo! Yet another punch in Husayn-Ali's defence.

Yourself said that the tablet is "explaining about the next
manifestation's power and authority".
Now, who needs to know that? God or its creatures?

The people of the Bayan. This too is clearly. Hey - we are agreeing
a lot
here aren't we?
We definitely did.

Therefore there would be nothing new in the tablet for HWGSMM. It
educates people of Bayan on the fact that HWGSMM would wait for 19
years in the next resurrection before they are dismissed, although he
can do it at any time even if it be in his infancy.
It is telling Bayanis that they have 19 years before they are
considered out of faith.

Hmm. This seems to be agreeing with the common Baha'i interpretation
of this tablet - where the "respite of 19 years" is considered to have
started in 1844, and refer to the entire length of the Bab's
dispensation.
Nop! As always you keep missing 'in the next resurrection'. You have
had many many chances to acknowledge or at least responde to the most
important clause in the text in terms of knocking down the Bahai clim.
I claim your and Bahais complete surrender on this point.
Husayn-Ali's infancy was in the previous resurrection not in the next
resurrection.


The tablet is also a token of praise for the station of HWGSMM.

Clear.
Notice the word 'also'.

This
satisfies the requirement of the body of the tablet. Because HWGSMM is
not known to anyone, His school will not be also known to anyone,
therefore the tablet will be installed at all Bayani schools.

Ah - now you've lost me. Haven't you just been saying that the next
manifestation doesn't NEED to actually read these words to know them?
What I argued for was that HWGSMM to have known about the tablet does
not disprove the physicality of the school.
It is very likeley that HWGSMM will make his claim beyond the age of
the primary school. It is therefore likely that He would glance at the
tablet before He knows about his mission.
It is also likely that HWGSMM knows it all before any normal child
gets to learn. What is important is that the tablet is more of in the
honour of HWGSMM than for Him only.


Yet now you are arguing that the tablet has to be installed at all
schools
to make sure that it *is* there at the right school.
See above.

This seems to be implying that the next manifestation is reliant on
the people of the Bayan putting this "illumination" on all the walls
in order
to be sure of knowing it.
You are making up very badly. You seem to manifest quite a lot of
skill in manufacturing.


Allmost
all buildings including schools are illuminated right now in Iran and
other Islamic countries with verses from Quran. The tablet tells us
that if you are going to adorn schools with any verse, then this is
the one.

Can you quote that part again, please.
That is what 'illumination' (munavvar) means. I have already explained
to you the precedence in the Islamic archeology.
So, what I am saying is that given the above, when it comes to the
adorning of the walls, people of Bayan would be bound to use this text
(at least in the schools) before anything else.

Once all schools are like that then when HWGSMM is sent to
school by his parents the requierments of the title of the tablet is
also satisifed.

The "school" mentioned in the Bab's tablet was not a PHYSICAL
place, but a way of developing the metaphor for explaining about
the next manifestation's power and authority.

By the Primal Point saying that: although HWGSMM has the authority in
next resurrection to dismiss the people of Bayan as he is sucking milk
for the breast of His mother, he will however wait for 19 years DOES
NOT disprove that the school is a physical school.

"Does not disprove that there can be a physical school" is
a very long way from "proves that there must be a physical
school".
You didn't get it. I disproved the hypothesis that statement
concerning the authority of HWGSMM has anything to do with the non/
physicality of the school.
I am not the one who is using it to prove the physicality of the
school.


Even if we suppose that HWGSMM knows about the tablet, it still does
not disprove the physicality of the school.

This isn't an argument I've made
But that is Husayn-Ali's.


The power and authority of the next manifestation being great and
absolute is not a metaphor. It is a sheer fact.

Yes, if you believe that sort of thing.
Therefore your hypothesis that "the Bab is developing a metaphore
here" is not true. A metaphore is open to interpretation. The station
of HWGSMM is crystal clear, it does not take interpretation, as you
did with your contrasts.


It needs no
metaphysical interpretation. It is all over the place in Bayan. It is
plain and simple.

No. I'm not buying that the concept of a Manifestation, and its
power and authority, and relationship with God is something
that is "plain and simple", and does not require illumination
by metaphorical language.
You are re-developing and expanding the domain of the statement
concerning the authority of HWGSMM with your own inventions.
There is nothing in this tablet concerning the relationship between
God and HWGSMM. The statement of the authority here is simply in the
context of the dismissing people of Bayan 19 years into the next
resurrection.
It is not a cook book intended to explain the authority and the
station of HWGSMM. The cotext is quite clear.

The title that the tablet illuminates the school of HWGSMM can post to
a physical school and also point to the authority and power of HWGSMM
in the next resurrection at the same time. These two do not conflict.

Not necessarily - but then I never said that they had to.
The statement of the authority and the issue of the physicality of the
school are completeley separate things.
It appears you don't hold to this argument of yours any longer either.
It appears to me that you have little by little by little pulled down
your own defence lines.


THIS is the main point, and the foundation of my argument against
your interpretations.

Well that was your main point above. You are still to explain:
- How the tablet talking about the authority of HWGSMM invalidates the
physical school?
- What is your metaphysical interpretation for "as you suck milk from
the breast of your mother".
We know that an infant can't make any decree, but it makes the point
that in the next resurrection his authority is absolute and if such
thing i.e. making a decree at such stage is possible then the decree
would be effective.
On the other hand it makes the point that He will wait for 19 years in
the next resurrection that is from the time of his manifestation.

Yup. Nineteen years from 1844 to 1863. What's wrong with that?

YOU ARE IN AN ABSOLUTE DENIAL. YOU HAVE TURNED A COMPLETELY BLIND EYE
TO THE CLAUSE 'IN THE NEXT RESURRECTION'.
You are a disgrace. The next resurrection does not begin in 1844. It
was the previous resurrection (the resurrection of Islam) that begin
in 1844. How many times have I repeated this and how many times you
have ignored it.
This clause has completely killed of the Bahai claim to the 19 years.

But it also implicates that HWGSMM will have an infancy stage of his
life inside the Bayanic era.

Don't see this one at all. Where does this tablet say that?
No! Let me explain again and again:
What does a milk suckling HWGSMM means to you?
How do you interpret it to something other than it means?
When this tablet was written Husayn-Ali was a well developped man.


Even if we accept the erroneous Bahai claim that the resurrection of
Bayan started from 1844 which is ridicilous as 1844 was the start of
the resurrection of Islam, then Husayn-Ali had no idea of his alleged
mission until at least his first dream in 1853 in the basement of a
jail in Tehran where he spent 4 months. This means that this bogus
HWGSMM had no authority until he was at least 30 years old.

I see. So if Baha'u'llah had waited until 1872 you'd have no problem
with him, right?
Firstly, you missed again acknowledging the clause 'in the next
resurrection'.
Secondly: I don't know where you got 1872 from.
Third: What this tablet means is that Husayn-Ali's claim to 19 years
is dead in the water.

But let's play with such hypothesis: Let's say Husayn-Ali did claim in
1863 (which is a lie as there is no evidence but Husayn-Ali's word to
suppport it; he made it in 1866 in Edirne).
If Husayn-Ali had said that he dismissed people of Bayan in
(1863+19=1882), then his claim would have been compatible with the
tablet that HWGSMM would dismiss people of Bayan 19 years into the
next resurrection.
BUT. He would have still had to convince people of Bayan that the
resurrection of Bayan did commence in 1863. Note again that there is
nothing in this tablet or anywhere else to say that HWGSMM would
manifest 19 years after the proclamation of the Primal Point.


So the
whole thing about the authority of HWGSMM even when he is milk
suckling baby would ne just dead letter, that is, it could not be
applicable.

It is ALREADY applicable - the idea of the manifestations authority
is an eternal concept.

You first need to establish a link between the physicality of the
school in the title and the statement of authority in the body.
So far you have not established any link. You seem to have cooked up
something in your head with no proof for it.
The statement of authority HAS NOTHING to do with the HWGSMM being
able to disimiss people of Bayan 19 yeards into the next resurrection
which is the resurrection of Bayan.


The metaphor of the baby dismissing the people of the Bayan
with a wave of his hand is fulfilled, absolutely, at the moment
the people of the Bayan obey the Bab's command, and accept
HWGWMM's authority.

You are jumping too early and on to the wrong tree.
HWGSMM will in due course when Bayan reaches its perfection and 19
years into the next resurrection will dismiss people of Bayan and
that has not been fulfilled yet because we are not in the next
resurrection yet.
People of Bayan ARE obeying the command of the Point and accept the
authority of HWGSMM who in the next resurrection can dismiss people of
Bayan
even as a Baby but will do so in 19th year of the resurrection period.
When Mirza Husayn-Ali was a baby not even the resurrection of Islam
had occured let alone the resurrection of Bayan!!!


Unless you say that the authority of HWGSMM was
established before the authority of the Primal Point was established
which makes a complete mockery of everything in Bayan.

Huh?

We can't have

two sources of authrity at the same time.
We can't have two Suns in one day. By Sun I mean the Sun of the Truth
and day being the period for which the sun appears.

The Baha'is don't think this happened, although they do talk about
"Twin
Suns", because of the two manifestations coming so close together.

No! The concept of twin manifestations does mean two Suns at the same
time. Your "manifestations coming so close together" is an
understatement.
According to Bayan, on that day Bayan was at its infancy. Husayn-Ali
manifested himself when Bayan was at its stage of infancy.

Shoghi fell right into it and said the most stupid thing: "The Bab was
the co-founder of Bahaism"!


But if you name any year, the Baha'is could tell you which
manifestation
they think held authority at that time...
I don't think so. The Badasht conference occured during the first 6
years since 1844. You would have to say that the Primal Point
held the supreme divine authority on earth. Bahais say that it was
Husayn-Ali who conferred divine station on the Letters of the Living.
See Nabil the liar's junk book. The only one who can confer divine
stations is the Sun of the Day.


Therefore the only way to say that Husayn-Ali knew about the tablet is
to say that he allegedly quotes God who says He knew the tablet before
it was revealed. Which also means it was not written for Himself.

I think we'd agreed on this - the tablet clearly wasn't written to
instruct
God. And whether or not Baha'u'llah knew it before it was written
in no way affects what it means.

Therefore Husayn-Ali's defence that the school was not a physical one
because he knew about the tablet before anything is irrelevant.


- You also did not explain why the tone of the title is instructive
one.
- What illuminates what?
- What is it that was not illuminated and got illuminated as a result
of that, and when did this happen?

You are repeating yourself. I've answered all these questions, or
explained
why I didn't comment on them above.
Yes, I forgot. You said you don't know Persian and therefore you are
unable to accept my reasons.
But my argument does not go away. It is on you to investigate and
disprove my argument or accept it.
Find out from your Iranian Bahai friends what 'munavvar' means and
whether the verb 'befarmayand' is in instructive mode or not.


Who died and made you Shoghi?
Is this a joke?

Partly.

My SERIOUS point here is that you are insisting that YOUR
interpretation of this tablet, and yours alone should be the
only one allowed.

You are making up. I have put out the tablet in its original format
and a translation of it.
I gave the Bayani view and the Bahai view.
I attended to your minor and major.
You are proven wrong.

No I'm not. YOU have said "Baha'u'llah was feeling like this" in
talking about
Baha'u'llah's response.
Your "My SERIOUS point here is that .. only one allowed." had nothing
to do with "Baha'u'llah was feeling like this".


YOu have insisted on your interpretation being the only one allowed.
You are full of crap!
I never said it was the only one allowed. Why would I be wasting my
time with you then?

Your strategy appears to be that as long as you can have some other
sort of interpretation then it sits in parallel to
what I have said and hence what I have said would no longer hold as
the truth.
I have proven beyound any doubt that your fanciful interpretations are
just that and in no way clouds what I have said.


That is why we are still arguing.
You are arguing for the sake of it. You know you have lost it but your
ego and sense of hostility will not allow it.


No-where have you accepted that the Baha'i view might have
equal validity with yours.
No. And I have given hard and solid proofs for them.

You have simply steamrollered it at
"clearly wrong", when all that is clear is that you are convinced
you are right.
I am convinced right because I do not make up. I go by the evidence. I
go by Bayan. I go by the Bahai account.
I go by the facts which is what is in the tablet. I do not make up
interpretations specially if I cannot back them up.
I challenge you to disprove by reasons anything I have argued for so
far.


You are behaving as if you have some kind of scriptural
authority such that your interpretations should be the
only ones anybody is allowed to believe.

Nop!
See all of the above. You on other hand make some sort of excuse for
the school not being a physical school.
So far you have not produced a iota to say why?

This is a long post. I've said why I think so over and over, just in
this
post.
Hmmm. I forgot the place you said: "see above"!


You also have not
addressed my points for supporting the argument that it
is a physical school.

I'm sure I have.
Yes. You said you don't understand Persian and hence can't accept my
reasons.


This means your interpretations of this "Nineteen Years"
letter, AND your interpretations of the things you say Baha'u'llah
said about it.

Read what you wrote here, it is not English.

YOu read it. It is.

You insist on being able to read Baha'u'llah's emotions when you
talk about him being "dismissive" or "angry" in his responses.
You could too if you were not a pro-Bahai and an anti-Bayani.
Anyone who cries out: I could read when your mouth smelled after milk
or I am no ignorant adolescent to go to school must be pissed off.
And I stand by it.


You insist on being the only person able to interpret the Bab's
tablet correctly.
You are full of rubbish.


So, you are insisting on the correctness, only of your
interpretations,
in two cases - the Bab's nineteen year tablet, and Baha'y'llah's
reaction to that tablet.
All I can tell you is this: I have repeatedly asked you how on earth
you link up the physicality of the school in question with
the statement of the authority in the body of the tablet and you have
failed.
I have also proven you wrong on your "the tablet too difficult for
children", etc.

I have also stated taht the instructive tone of the title and the
meaning of 'munavvar' does explicitly refer to the physicality of the
school.
Your defence was this: I don't know Persian.

You also consistently run away from the clause 'in the next
resurrection" which proves Bahai claim to the 19 years as they put is
a load of garbage.

Now work on those!


This tablet has two distinct significances.
The first is the implication of the title of it which is been what is
been discussed here so far.

Read what you wrote here, it is not English.
I am sure you did read and understand it. You have clearly failed to
respond to my reasons on the physicality of the school in question.


The second point is the fact that HWGSMM will wait for 19 years in the
next resurrection before he dismisses the people of Bayan (i.e those
who have still remained in Bayan). This is the point that Bahais have
jumped at to reduce the Mustaghath to 19 years and back up their 1863
non-event of Ridvan. This item is never discussed by you so far.

Seems quite reasonable to me.
What is reasonable?
Are you agreeing that the 19 years will be added to the date of the
annunciation of HWGSMM to give the date of dismissal of people of
Bayan who have remained in Bayan and not to 1844 which is the previous
resurrection?
Or, you are being stubborn, shut your ears and mind and insist on 1844
being the next resurrection?


It was all that stuff about how the resurrection wasn't really the
resurrection,
Do not confuse yourself. Resurrection is resurrection. I assumed for
the sake of explaining the tablet that the Bahai argument that 1863
WAS
the resurrection of Bayan (God forbids). In that case what the tablet
would mean to Bahais is that Husayn-Ali would or could dismiss people
of Bayan
in 1863+19. That is all. This means that the 19 years thing could not
be used to prove that something would happen in 1863 but it would ONLY
support their case if they said Husayn-Ali dismissed people of Bayan
in 1882. That is not very difficult, is it?

and why everything should start counting from 1850 instead that
I didn't understand.
I gave you and the Bahais the benefit of the error to start the Bayani
era in 1844 and not in 1850. The point is that either way it is of no
help to Bahais to jump at the 19 years into the next resurrection.


The Baha'i concept of what that 19 meant seems a lot easier to
grasp to me.
Well! If you really have to play ignorance and can't afford to grasp
the simple meaning of the resurrection then pretend the fool as you
would otherwise
have to admit the obvious which you already have (above).
In any case, your answer was the most lousy one and a disgrace for a
man who considers himself sophisticated enough to come up with (wild)
interpretations on
connecting the physicality of the school with the statement of the
authority.
All of this proves beyound a doubt that you are simply a Bahai proxy
only after supporting Bahai cases no matter what.
I have had plenty of opportunities to test this on you and you never
proved me wrong.


So, I am pointing out that your behaviour makes you come
across as if you believe you are the Bayani Shoghi Effendi,
and that what you say goes.

I have practically proven you wrong and Bayani Shoghi Effendi is as
offensive to me as the rest of your vulgar.

No, you haven't proven me wrong. And offending you by comparing
your behaviour to claiming Shoghi's authority was part of my
intention. So glad I did.
I HAVE. You just don't have what it takes to admit that you are here
to work for Bahai. Full stop.
Shoghi Effendi was the statue of ignorance and one even Bahais would
have loved to have done without.


Oh, and "the rest of your vulgar" is not correct English.

"vulgar" is an adjective.

"vulgarity" is the noun.
_!_




I say: "says WHO?"

Aha! That is my question. I have brought testimony from Bayan and you
didn't want to hear it. Then you said it was irrelevant which is crap,
they are very much related as they both refer to a school that HWGSMM
would possibly attend.

But, this tablet does NOT refer to a physical school!
It does. But you don't know any Persian. So I am proven wrong!!

At the same time, I stuck to what the tablet says.

So have I.
You have stuck to some weird interpretation of yours which you cannot
support and are not prepared to give them up and at the same time have
conceded to every point of mine.

You on the other

hand have come up with "way of developing the metaphor for explaining
about the next manifestation's power and authority" which in no way
invalidates the physicality of the school and you have come come up
with no reason as to why you think it invalidates it.

I don't think it invalidates it
You are being very silly. I am asking you to prove how you validate it
and you are telling me it does not invalidate it?
You are good at twisting but you only loose and confuse yourself.
Try again.



This is Baha'u'llah making the point about having innate knowledge.

That Husayn-Ali has innate knowledge has nothing to do with the title
and contents of this tablet.

No.

Ok! Then, your main argument is gone with the wind!

This is not an argument I have ever made.
I initially argued that Husayn-Ali's argument that he knew about the
tablet was irrelevant and it was irrelevant to the subject of the
physicality of the school.
You kept bringing up Husayn-Ali's claim to 'innate knowledge'. So,
what were you exactly trying to prove when you were running full steam
with your 'innate knowledge'.
How did that help your point on disproving that the school was a
physical one, given that you have already conceded they have nothing
to do with one another.


It has to do with what you were just talking about - the way
Baha'u'llah talking about how he'd "been to school while you
were reclining on your bed" - all that stuff which *you* interpret
as "typical Baha'u'llah arrogance".

Aha!
I would say you have not been addressing the main points.
Despite everything I have said so far, imagine that Husayn-Ali
speaking on behalf of God knew of the tablet when the first Bayanis
were reclining in their bed.
He must have meant God because Husayn-Ali had no clue to his alleged
mission when the first Bayanis were reclining in their bed.
So Husayn-Ali being the alleged HWGSMM could have known about it first
in around 1853 which is well after he finished his schooling.

Husayn Ali being the alleged HWGWMM could have known the words
of this tablet in the year 6000BC if he wanted to.

I'm still not quite understanding your drift here.
The point here which you have already conceded was that the tablet
although addressed to HWGSMM and to is to honour every school was for
the benefit of the mankind and not JUST to be perusedd by HWGSMM.


Therefore, the audince is mainly the people not HWGSMM and as you put
it the authority of HWGSMM and that he would wait for 19 years in the
next resurrection before he dismisses the poeple of Bayan.
First, it also proves that the title was addressing people of Bayan to
implement the provision.

To me "implement the provision" means "accept the authority of
HWGWMM".
You are yet to show a link between the physicality of the school and
the statement of the authority.
The thing to be implemented is in the title itself. The provision is
to 'munavvar' the school.
Admit it you have been walking on very thin hair with your linking the
physicality of the school with the authority of HWGSMM.

To you, apparently, "implement the provision" means start some
kind of PFI school-decoration program.
To you, the illumination of mosques and buildings with verses of God
is some kind of pfi decoration program. You need to get out of the pub
and have some fresh air.

Second, the expression of the authority of HWGSMM which you also say

Read what you wrote here, it is not English.
There is nothing wrong with the statement of the authority of HWGSMM.
What is wrong is your linking it with the physicality of the school.

Third, that HWGSMM would wait for 19 years in the next resurrection
before he dismisses the poeple of Bayan.

Okay - so what's wrong with 1844-1863?
Okay - SO what is wring with you playing Maxwell Smart?
Hello! Anybody home? for the 100th times: 1844 was the beginning of
the resurrection of Islam not Bayan!


Fourth, there is nothing here that invalidates the school being a
physical one.
In fact HEGSMM to know about the tablet without reading it supports
the argument that the audience is the people who are instructed to
implement the provision in the tablet; to know about the authority of
HWGSMM and that he would wait for 19 years in the next resurrection.

I'm not quite sure what your argument with me is now - I've agreed
with
this concept here all three times you've written it in this post.
I honestly don't know what you are hanging around for. You have so far
agreed to everything I have said in practice.


It looks to me like it's the typical kind of claim that a
Manifestation
makes - "I have innate knowledge from God - so obviously, God
could tell me what's in that document if I wanted to know"

As stated before, the innate knowledge of the tablet does not
invalidates the physicality of the school and in fact it validates it.

As I stated before (third? fourth? time now) whether or not
Baha'u'llah
knew the tablet before it was written has no bearing at all on what
the Babi tablet actually means.

You seem to be mixing up several lines of argument here.
No. I don't. Your admission that Husayn-Ali's claim that by him to
have known about the tablet invalidates the physiclaity of the school
came in this post and not before.



The kind of thing that's only arrogant if you disbelieve that he
was HWGWMM.

Look! You and Bahais are claiming the school was not a physical one
only because of its implications. If say, the tablet did not have such
title, you and Bahais would not have disputed the physicality of the
school.

WTF? I'm disputing the physicality of the "primary school" because it
seems clear to me that the whole thing about "dismissing all the
people of the Bayan" while still at suck is a metaphor about
authority.
You are saying 1 > 2 because 3=3.


Are you suggesting that all the people of the Bayan will report
to some primary school in some particular place and time in
order the the next guy can "dismiss" them?

No. No. If this is the mistake you have been making then it is a
tragic one.
The school has nothing to do with what is in the tablet.
The dismissing is a spiritual one. The Primal Point dismissed Muslims
in 1850 not in a particular place. He did that by these words in
Bayan: "Anyone who is still is Islam is of People of Hell-Fire"!
The title merely says that the building is to be decorated with the
tablet.
I don't see why this is so difficult to you.


It in no way disproves that HWGSMM would be sent to school like all
other students.

Sure.

Jesus! I already let this one go in the last post! I've my fingers
out answering
this one again 3 times in this post!
You have admitted this point in this post.


Ok! So there is nothing wrong with adorning the schools and perchance
the school of HWGSMM with the tablet.

I'm not following this reasoning now - HWGSMM is probably going to be
sent
to some school, therefore the schools must have this tablet "adorned"
on
them?
What I am saying is that since you understand that HWGSMM would
probably attend some sort of school, then it would be also
understandable if these schools are adorned with such tablet.
Your "must have this tablet "adorned" on them?" is the result of you
twisting my words.


I'm sure Baha'u'llah had the education appropriate to his
station.

What the f..ck does that mean?

He was well off and had tutors. He was meant to be an educated
man, nicht wahr?
Sehr richtig!


He must have got intensive training for to prepare him for his claim?

<sigh> no that's not what I said.
That was a reaction to you saying he had some education for his claim
which means he had planned it, which is what we Bayanis say, which is
true.


And I know where his exercise books are: Look for them in the Tigris
river in Baghdad!

This is just an anti-Baha'i crack, isn't it?
Absolutely not. Ask his disciple Mirza Aqa Jan. Husayn-Ali himself has
admitted to have washed out his 'verses' in the Tigris river.
Many of the Bayanis wrote in their memoirse at the time that they went
to Bagdad to visit the source of command Subh-i Azal only to be turned
away by Husayn-Ali and see him walking up and down memorising stuff
and taking notes and giving them to Aqa Jan to wash them out.
Only later we find what he is been doing. These memoirse are captured
in Mirza Mustafa's book in bayanic.com but you don't read Persian so
it must be untrue.



But since this tablet does NOT say that the next manifestation is
currently a baby or unborn, so what?

Come up with a metaphysical description of HWGSMM suckling milk from
His mother's breat.

See above. Come up with a physical description of "all the people
of Bayan" squeezing into Baby Babi Jesus' classroom in
order to be "dismissed".

You are having difficulty because you have locked yourself into a
silly interpretation that the purpose of the school is to perform a
dismissal!


That the tablet blesses the Bayani schools and per chance the school
of HWGSMM is rock solid logical because there can be such school and
that HWGSMM would not be an exception.

Husayn-Ali has never claimed he was illiterate when he made his claim!

Yeah - and what does it matter whether Ali claimed to be illiterate?

You don't follow. Therefore the concept of a physical school (even*)
for Husayn-Ali was not impossible.

No, I don't follow. What are you whining about now?
It means that even Husayn-Ali had schooling and his excuse for saying
the school was not a physical one because he did not need to go to
school is a void one.
But you have already conceded that.

I think you've got plenty of illiteracy for everybody to be going on
with!

I have got it for you, the Dead Weed and the LAT!

Fine - just a crack about other posters on different thread.
Whatever.
You having plenty problems proving your literacy are in no place to
complain about others' literacy.
I am already wasting enough of my precious time responding
(repeatedly) to your nonsense. I am not goping to proof read it for
you.

It is understood from this tablet and from the Bayan that HWGSMM is
expected to go to Primary school just like all other students.

Not by me, that isn't understood.

You just agreed that even your Husayn-Ali went to a physical school,
so what is your f..g problem?

That this isn't what this tablet primarily means.
Do not try to mix up thing. You agreed that Husayn-Ali had schooling.
This by establishes Husayn-Ali a liar who says he didn't.
And, by implication it nullifies his argument to say the school was
not a physical school because he did not need it.
You have already conceded to all these. So, I let you go on this.


Oh, and I've warned you about "your Aqdas" and "your
Baha'u'llah".

What is your fucking problem?
That you are worse than Bahais.




THE PRIMARY SCHOOL IN THIS TABLET IS NOT A REAL PLACE.

And, your reason???????????????
Because HWGSMM would have known it before it was revealed? Is that the
reason?

NO NO NO NO NO. A THOUSAND TIMES NO.
No, but what?


Bluddy hell - can you read what I actually write instead of what you
think I might have said?
So, what is it?
The statement of authority in the tablet???


As I said, this argument of yours adds weight to the physicality of
the school

If you are referring to "Baha'u'llah had innate knowledge" this isn't
an argument with any bearing on the meaning of this tablet.

And it's just you confusing lines of reasoning and muddying the
waters.
You have conceded the point. I rest my case on this very point. The
only mud in on your hands.


and its benefit for the school and its inhabitant. The

implication of the school of HWGSMM is that this will happen in all
schools.

What? So, if we take it literally, HWGWMM will attend EVERY
school? What does this mean?
You are playing silly again.
Because no one knows which school HWGSMM will attend, the tablet will
honor all schools.

So how *could* Baha'u'llah, or anyone have actually gone there?

You are asking me! You must be 'mentally masturbating' here!

It's not a real place - lets put that together again so it makes more
sense:

THE PRIMARY SCHOOL IN THIS TABLET IS NOT A REAL PLACE.
So how *could* Baha'u'llah, or anyone have actually gone there?
That is funny! You are assuming what you are asked to prove to be the
case and then you are cashing in on the outcome of it.
Very smart, Maxwell!


This is me shouting at you, because you're being a dickhead.
Talk about yourself!

I'm not actually asking you. I'm merely saying that it's impossible
to physically attend an imaginary place.
And I am shouting at you that it is very possible to attend a physical
place.
'imaginary school' is in your head only.

For you to say "the only way to interpret what Baha'u'llah
said is the way *I* say" is the height of ignorant arrogance, in
my opinion.

You are making up.

No, I'm not making it up. You've behaved like the Babi Shoghi
over and over again in the course of this thread.

You can rehash your made up claims.

And so can you. And so you have. 3 hours and I'm still writing!
Write volumes of rubbish if you want to. You have so far conceded to
everything I have said. But you are forgetfull.
You need to show to yourself how you link the physicality of the
school with the authority of HWGSMM. And do not imagine that I would
be saying the
school would be for public anouncement on dismissal of people of
Bayan! That was a crude joke!
You also need to explain to yourself that 1844 was the previous
resurrection not the next resurrection.
Write about these things if you can.


Look for yourself. I have attended
to your 'Babi Shoghi' already.

You said I'd caused offence to you with my vulgar (sic)

Good. I meant to cause offence to you with that one.

And I'm not making up the facts about your behaiouvr
I considered any comparison of myself with Shoghi as offensive given
the man or the woman he or she was.
That you have always been intentional on offending has not skipped my
attention. Althouhg, they never helped your case, but you are after
satisfaction and this is the only way you get it.

You've even tried to tell me that your interpretation of
the word "strong" was the only way for me to understand
my OWN comment that this tablet was "too long" to adorn
the actual physical walls.

That must be another of your 'mental masturbation!
I have attended to your 'long' argument and your major ones. All
ridicilous.

Sez you, Babi Shoghi.
I thought you said you have already conceded on that point. Very short
memory you have!

I have seen your "arguments" and you have seen mine. Everyobody can
see for themselves.

Indeed.

And you have seen more of it here.

Firstly we do know
that Husayn-Ali has made no claim to have been illiterate (like
prophet Muhammad) when he made his claim (whenever that was),
therefore he must have had schooling in one way or another.

Do you deny the fact that Manifestations of God claim to have
knowledge direct from God?

What Bayanis believe is that God speaks through the mouthpiece of His
manifestation.
There is no training involved and no school in heaven. This type of
analogy has no precedence in Bayanic teachings.

The "school in heaven" is not what I said or meant, as you'd know if
you bothered to read that part of my last post.

Define 'School of God'. It is ridiclilous.

Is this your answer to everything?
Everything?! What did you have? School of God is not an earthly thing.
So it must be a heavenly thing.
I am asking you what sort of school is the 'school of God'. What I
said earlier was that the concept of schooling means to teach someone.
We (Bayanis) do not believe the Primal Point went to the school of
God. We believe God spoke through the Primal Point.


To kave known the meanings
and the tablet before anything was created on part of God is true.

So, why are you saying it's ridiculous then?
See above.


Again, if that was all the tablet wanted to serve then it would not
have been put to paper.

Okay - this is familiar. Clearly God doesn't need to talk to himself.

Where did you get the idea that THAT was something I was saying?
You support the Bahai case. The Bahai case is that Husayn-Ali knew
about the tablet. You and I agree that if it was just for him, it
would not have to be put to the paper.


But Husayn-Ali's motive for re-interpreting the school to 'school of
God' is clear: He is attempting to escape the implication of the title
of the tablet.

Husayn Ali hasn't done this.
If it wasn't for the implication of the title, he would not have split
hair to say that there is no school for HWGSMM except for the school
of God.


This is what I mean by muddying the waters.
What?


There are three concepts here:

The Bab, speaking in the tablet, talks about "The Primary School".
Yes.

Baha'u'llah, making his claim of innate knowledge, talks about
the "School of God".
Yes.
And he is doing it to say there is no such thing as a physical school
for HWGSMM because He is no ignorant adolescent.
That is not muddying the waters. You have already accepted this point
any way.


I am talking about the school in the Bab's tablet being metaphorical.
Yeah! I think I have heard that one too.
Your reasons were:
Well! You wrongly thought (after all that explanations) that I
suggested the school was to be used for public anouncement of
dismissing people of Bayan and that they would be gathered in there!!
You also magically linked the semantics of the title with what is in
the body of it.


'School of God' does not fit with in the tablet. There are too many
things in there that do not sit well with 'school of god':
- The 'school of god' (let's say it is the inner meanings) was not
illuminated and got illuminated. This is blasphemous.
- You don't instruct anyone to do anything for the 'School of God'. I
know you don't agree with the tone of the title being instructive but
I do not accept your denial because you don't know Persian.

<sigh> I have about three times said that I cannot comment on the
"mood" or "mode" of the word because I do not speak the language.
Talk to someone who knows Persian. You cannot throw away an important
reason just because yourself don't know Persian.

Once again, you impute a ridiculous argument to me that I DID NOT
MAKE.
These 'ridiculous argument' were from Husayn-Ali. I thought would be
very good for you to know.


Let's try this again. Leave out Baha'u'llah's comment on
"School of God", since this seems to be your wilful attempt
to re-instate your odd "School of Heaven" argument which you
wanted to put onto me last time around.
You have accepted they are 'ridiculous argument'. So I rest my case on
this point.


The Bab, in his tablet, is talking about a "primary school", because
he is developing the idea the the Next Guy would have spiritual
authority from birth. - the metaphorical school where the Next
Guy has authority is clearly *this* world.
Just take a god damn look at your argument. What follows your
'because' has nothing to do with what precedes it.
There is no reference to the school in the body of the tablet. The
body of the tablet simply talks about the dismissal of people of Bayan
19 years from the next resurrection.
The only thing in the body of the tablet that points to the school
being a "metaphorical school" is in your head.
The body of the tablet does not say that HWGSMM's authority is over
His school. There is no such thing there. You are imaginning it.
You also need to explain yourself why the reference is to a 'primary
school' as opposed to the 'school'.


Baha'u'llah says he "attended the school of God" because he
claims innate knowledge. It's not really connected with
understanding the Babi tablet.
Oh! Yes it is. His whole argument for dismissing the school as a
physical one is just that. That there is no physical school for
HWGSMM.
Question: What is it Husayn-Ali's argument for dimissing the school as
a physical one? He certainly did not think of yours and you certainly
dismiss his.
So what is it you think Husayn-Ali thought to be the reason for saying
the school was not a physical one.


You're mixing two metaphors up because they both use
the concept of "school".
Am I?
There is no mix up. You have not been following.
There is a reference to 'school of god' in Husayn-ALi's Aqdas because
he wants to say the only school for HWGSMM is the school of God and
that ain't no physical one on earth.
And, there is your 'metaphorical school' where you think the authority
of HWGSMM rules.
Both of you came up with 'ridiculous argument' to come up with
alternative schools.

continued ..

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