Re: The Internet ate my homework! The Nineteen Years (Part One)

On 4 Jun, 12:25, steveblombe...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Jun 4, 6:21 pm, PaulHammond <pahamm...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:> On 2 Jun, 13:13, steveblombe...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
<snipped earlier stuff that was unnecessary>

It was. Every single word of the title is a testimony to the

What I snipped was answers and responses going back about
6 cycles.

I have not snipped a word of your most recent message to which this
was a reply.

I'm sure all of this points are addressed more than once in the long
post
I re-posted a few days back.


Apparently, you haven't read the long post that I re-posted a couple
of
weeks back - the one I wrote on the bank Holiday, 28 May.

You however have not had any argument yet and you have already
dismissed the Bahai argument.


This sounds like something I have said many times about you.

Confusing, seeing as how it appears as part of YOUR post.

more than once that the fact that we've talked about your
interpretations

You have not brought any reason against these:
- Illumination does not mean 'illumination of mind'. It is meant to
give blessing to a place.

I think it does mean illumination of the mind.

That is the meaning of the word Munavvar.
The illumination is very loose translation. Talk to an Iranian and ask
him what does it mean when someone enter someone's home and and he is
told you have "munavvar"ed our place.
- The title includes a reference to 'Khaneh' or House. This means
physicality!

Like, Universal House of Justice? House of spirituality?

These all refer to the people as well as the place.

- The title is in instructive mode. Your only defence against this is
your igornace of the Persian language!
And many more.
It is these reasons that you have HAD NOTHING to say.


I've had plenty to say. I seem to have said it several times over.

The last long response I wrote took me three hours.

You don't appear to listen, because a nuymber of times you have
heard somthing I *didn't* say.

of Baha'u'llah's claims of innate knowledge as well as talking about
your interpretations of the Bab's tablet containing reference to

The innate knowledge HAS NOTHING to do with the physicality of the
school

Why are you suggesting that I ever said it did?

unless you fall back on to the Bahai position that Husayn-Ali
(i.e. God forbid HWGSMM) needed not to go to school like ignorant
children.


You are inventing arguments that I didn't make, and also inventing
arguments that the Baha'is do not make.

I have not heard a Baha'i make the argument "Baha'u'llah didn't
need to go to school because he was never an ignorant child".

This is not an argument the Baha'is make. It's not a Baha'i position.
It's not my position.

You're pulling it out of the air.

"primary schools" "nineteen years of respite" and "dismissing the
people of the bayan while he was sucking at his mother's breast"
does not mean that *I* have made any link between these two
entirely seperate conepts.

Yes! They are different. The 19 years thing has nothing to do with the
physicality of the school.
2 hings were put up here. The Bayani position that the school meant
here is a physical school like the reference made in Bayan which you
have conceded to be a refrence to a physical school and hence the fake-
hood of Husayn-Ali's claim because he was at least 30 years old when
these provisions were being put to paper.

Bollocks! The fact that there is a reference to Baha'u'llah going to a
school does not say ANYTHING about the time period when he might
have gone to the school.

I've said this several times - but you're apparently determined to
ignore that
point.

The second thing is the Bahai bogus interpretation of the 19 years
which is taken out of its context as just 19 years without a single
reference to its context.
Not a single Bahai has stepped forward to tell me what is this "in the
next resurrection' which the 19 years is supposed to occur in, is
doing here and what when did the resurrection of Bayan begin.



I'll say it again for clarity.

I believe that the question of whether baha'u'llah did or did
not claim innate knowledge has no bearing whatsoever on
the physicality or otherwise of the "school" mentioned by
the Bab in the Nineteen years tablet.

Excellent. So, all the stuff you have been producing on the innate
knowledge was just red herring.

No.

It was a response to another line of argument that YOU were making
suggesting that your interpretation of Baha'u'llah's words regarding
this tablet showed him being "angry and dismissive".

I put a different interpretation forward.

You are the one that has confused my entirely separate arguments.
Don't
put the blame for this on me.


I remind you that this IS the only line of defence by Bahais.


No it isn't.

So, now! Tell me what are your reasons for the in-physicality of the
school?


Every line of that tablet suggests that it is the development of a
metaphor
regarding the spiritual authority of "The Next Guy".

People do not attend metaphorical schools.

I'm sure I've already said this at least 200 times now.


I also have never made the argument that because
Baha'u'llah believed he was the "Next Guy" does not
mean that I think it would be inappropriate if he went to
school.

As I said, you are not my only audience here. Anyway!
Excellent! That is what I have been talking about. So what is your
argument?


That Every line of that tablet suggests that it is the development of
a metaphor
regarding the spiritual authority of "The Next Guy".

People do not attend metaphorical schools.

I'm sure I've already said this at least 201 times now.




On the contrary, I assume that Baha'u'llah indeed had whatever
kind of education would have been appropriate to a fairly
well off high class Iranian man of that time. (So, he might
have had tutors rather than go away to school - but I'm pretty
sure he had a normal education for his class and time)

Way to go!
I think we might be getting somewhere.



Additionally, a detailed response to what Paul thinks is reponse to my
points and he posted several days ago but was lost and did not relaise
it was lost for a few days, will come when I get time to spare.

I think I'll wait for that before I say anything else.

This bit of cource concerned you. Let me however give you an executive
summary of what you will hear from me:
You repeated your earlier cooments with nothing new.
You produced no argument to back up your convictions.
You produced no counter argument to what I had said.

But, wait, once I feel like going through 30 pages of two words per
line in that thread in a huge mess.


Go and read/respond to that post for yourself.

I'm getting rather fed up with you putting words in my mouth instead
of actually reading what I say.

Paul

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: The Internet ate my homework! The Nineteen Years (Part One)
    ... physicality of the school as I explained in the earlier and much ... The authority stuff has nothing to do with the physicality of the ... You say the reference to 19 is what you or Bahais ...
    (talk.religion.bahai)
  • Paul Hammonds post of 2nd June - Part 2
    ... existence of a primary school for HWGSMM. ... of the tablet. ... Husayn-Ali to reason against the physicality of the school because as ...
    (talk.religion.bahai)
  • Re: Paul Hammonds post of 18th June
    ... the title and why I said they did refer to a physical primary school. ... meaning of resurrection from Bayan. ... of evidence that says it is not a reference to a physical school. ... got to do with the physicality of the school. ...
    (talk.religion.bahai)
  • Paul Hammonds post of 18th June
    ... the title and why I said they did refer to a physical primary school. ... dismissed the Bahai argument. ... The last long response I wrote took me three hours. ... got to do with the physicality of the school. ...
    (talk.religion.bahai)
  • Paul Hammons post of 4th June
    ... The tablet says that HEWGSMM would wait for 19 years in the next ... That HWGSMM could do the the above even as he would be 'sucking ... the title does refer to a physical school as opposed to Bahais ... the physicality or otherwise of the "school" mentioned by ...
    (talk.religion.bahai)