Re: The Internet ate my homework! The Nineteen Years (Part One)

On Jun 4, 6:21 pm, PaulHammond <pahamm...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 2 Jun, 13:13, steveblombe...@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
<snipped earlier stuff that was unnecessary>
It was. Every single word of the title is a testimony to the
physicality of the school as I explained in the earlier and much
earlier posts and you have brought no argument absolutely no argument
to back up your personal conviction that it was not. You have pointed
to NOTHING in the tablet that supports your line of defence.
The authority stuff has nothing to do with the physicality of the
school and the Bayanic metaphor of mankind and manifetsations to
students and teachers has nothing to do with the tablet because there
is nothing in there that points to that.
You keep repeating you believe the school was not physical but you
bring no reason. You say the reference to 19 is what you or Bahais
like it to be and that is it. You have NOT brought one iota of
evidence against the obvious reference to 'NEXT RESURRECTION'. Now
keep repeating the reference to 19 years is what you and Bahais are
comfortable with.


The tablet addressed by the Primal Point to HWGSMM has several point:
1) The title of the tablet literally says: Inside the school house of
HWGSMM, (please) illuminate
2) The tablet says that HEWGSMM would wait for 19 years in the next
resurrection before He dismissed People of Bayan
3) That HWGSMM could do the the above even as he would be 'sucking
milk from the breast of her mother'.

I'm sure all of this points are addressed more than once in the long
post
I re-posted a few days back.
Nop! I brough them up repeatedly and you HAD NOTHING to say about it.
You kept saying the 19 years is what you and Bahais like it to be. You
IGNORED the "IN THE NEXT RESURRECTION". You ignored the meaning of
resurrection according to Bayan to which Husayn-Ali had to confine
because he did not have any alternative meaning for it.


Most of the discussion revolved around the title. Bayanis arguing that
the title does refer to a physical school as opposed to Bahais
claiming that it is not a physical school and what is meant by it is
the divine knowledge and as such the manifestations of God are privy
to the tablet.
It appears that Bahais claim that the reference to the
School-house could not be a reference to a physical place because the
school is attributed to HWGSMM and because HWGSMM is educated by God
including the contents of the tablet therefore a physical school
would not be appropriate to HWGSMM.

I can't answer for what other people have said, but I've explained
clearly,
You may have noticed that I did not post this as a response to you. I
did summarise what you had to say because the thread was made to be
full of one word senetences. I also summarised mine and added further
information to it.
You are not the only one I am targetting. In fact you are not really
the one I am targetting. Although you do support Bahai positions, your
arguments are NOT the sort of arguments that Bahais have come up
with.
The only argument that Bahais have is that Husayn-Ali did not need to
go to school like ignorant children therefore this cannot be a
physical school.
You however have not had any argument yet and you have already
dismissed the Bahai argument.


more than once that the fact that we've talked about your
interpretations

You have not brought any reason against these:
- Illumination does not mean 'illumination of mind'. It is meant to
give blessing to a place. That is the meaning of the word Munavvar.
The illumination is very loose translation. Talk to an Iranian and ask
him what does it mean when someone enter someone's home and and he is
told you have "munavvar"ed our place.
- The title includes a reference to 'Khaneh' or House. This means
physicality!
- The title is in instructive mode. Your only defence against this is
your igornace of the Persian language!
And many more.
It is these reasons that you have HAD NOTHING to say.


of Baha'u'llah's claims of innate knowledge as well as talking about
your interpretations of the Bab's tablet containing reference to

The innate knowledge HAS NOTHING to do with the physicality of the
school unless you fall back on to the Bahai position that Husayn-Ali
(i.e. God forbid HWGSMM) needed not to go to school like ignorant
children.

"primary schools" "nineteen years of respite" and "dismissing the
people of the bayan while he was sucking at his mother's breast"
does not mean that *I* have made any link between these two
entirely seperate conepts.

Yes! They are different. The 19 years thing has nothing to do with the
physicality of the school.
2 hings were put up here. The Bayani position that the school meant
here is a physical school like the reference made in Bayan which you
have conceded to be a refrence to a physical school and hence the fake-
hood of Husayn-Ali's claim because he was at least 30 years old when
these provisions were being put to paper.
The second thing is the Bahai bogus interpretation of the 19 years
which is taken out of its context as just 19 years without a single
reference to its context.
Not a single Bahai has stepped forward to tell me what is this "in the
next resurrection' which the 19 years is supposed to occur in, is
doing here and what when did the resurrection of Bayan begin.


I'll say it again for clarity.

I believe that the question of whether baha'u'llah did or did
not claim innate knowledge has no bearing whatsoever on
the physicality or otherwise of the "school" mentioned by
the Bab in the Nineteen years tablet.
Excellent. So, all the stuff you have been producing on the innate
knowledge was just red herring.
I remind you that this IS the only line of defence by Bahais.

So, now! Tell me what are your reasons for the in-physicality of the
school?


I also have never made the argument that because
Baha'u'llah believed he was the "Next Guy" does not
mean that I think it would be inappropriate if he went to
school.
As I said, you are not my only audience here. Anyway!
Excellent! That is what I have been talking about. So what is your
argument?


On the contrary, I assume that Baha'u'llah indeed had whatever
kind of education would have been appropriate to a fairly
well off high class Iranian man of that time. (So, he might
have had tutors rather than go away to school - but I'm pretty
sure he had a normal education for his class and time)

Way to go!
I think we might be getting somewhere.


Additionally, a detailed response to what Paul thinks is reponse to my
points and he posted several days ago but was lost and did not relaise
it was lost for a few days, will come when I get time to spare.

I think I'll wait for that before I say anything else.
This bit of cource concerned you. Let me however give you an executive
summary of what you will hear from me:
You repeated your earlier cooments with nothing new.
You produced no argument to back up your convictions.
You produced no counter argument to what I had said.

But, wait, once I feel like going through 30 pages of two words per
line in that thread in a huge mess.



Paul


.

Relevant Pages

  • Paul Hammonds post of 2nd June - Part 2
    ... existence of a primary school for HWGSMM. ... of the tablet. ... Husayn-Ali to reason against the physicality of the school because as ...
    (talk.religion.bahai)
  • Re: Paul Hammonds post of 18th June
    ... the title and why I said they did refer to a physical primary school. ... meaning of resurrection from Bayan. ... of evidence that says it is not a reference to a physical school. ... got to do with the physicality of the school. ...
    (talk.religion.bahai)
  • Re: The Internet ate my homework! The Nineteen Years (Part One)
    ... - The title includes a reference to 'Khaneh' or House. ... The innate knowledge HAS NOTHING to do with the physicality of the ... need to go to school because he was never an ignorant child". ... the Bab in the Nineteen years tablet. ...
    (talk.religion.bahai)
  • Paul Hammonds post of 18th June
    ... the title and why I said they did refer to a physical primary school. ... dismissed the Bahai argument. ... The last long response I wrote took me three hours. ... got to do with the physicality of the school. ...
    (talk.religion.bahai)
  • Re: I Got A Chemistry Text Book
    ... Uncle Al wrote: ... teaching her first year high school German with no reference materials ...
    (sci.chem)