Re: Fundamentalist liberal Baha'is disenrolling Irfan19 and unenrolled Baha'is

Hi, Larry.

Heather Carr-Rowe wrote:
> Howdy Michael,
>
> Getting bumped from one list could have been a mistake but getting bumped
> from two at the very same time, well.

I'm a technopeasant, so I don't know the intricacies of such. I do
favour communication. I guess if Karen is the moderator of both lists,
then it seems reasonable to contact her and let her know (in case she
doesn't already know) that you're not receiving messages any more and
could she subscribe you again, if the problem's at her end.

Actually, I do recall that I was on Talisman at one time and freenet
was deleting all messages from umich.edu, the domain of talisman at
that time, on account of umich.edu being a source of too much spam. I
contacted the list moderator, stated my problem, the moderator
contacted umich.edu tech people, the umich.edu people said it's not our
problem. I contacted freenet and was told that freenet was zapping all
stuff from umich.edu. I understand that in the current state of Baha'i
distrust the first thought is that it's a personal attack or whatever,
and, even if correct, it just seems reasonable to get that confirmed
from the list moderator her/himself.

> It's not so much the fact of being bumped that erked me, it was the fact
> that it had nothing whatsoever to do with any of my posts to either Irfan19
> or unenrolledbahai but with Karen's paraniod and unfounded suspicion that I
> was Nima's mole. As Nima has openly admitted it wasn't me.

TRB is wide open. It has no moderators/censors and it is more widely
read, as I understand it, than any other Baha'i list. I favour open
discourse and heartily encourage you to share your opinions
beneficially here.

> What motivated Karen to disenroll me was Nima's sharing of the post I sent
> to him shortly after I was treated so shabily by both Alison and Steve and
> was in a deep state of shock and perplexity. Baha'is should have nothing to
> hide as Abdu'l-Baha pointed out, I have nothing to hide; when I goof up,
> which has thankfully been infrequent since my dear wife Heather began my
> training lol, I'm human enough to admit it and apologize for it.

Great. That's the key, in my opinion, to healing the Baha'i Faith. To
have everyone admit they're human, can sometimes goof up and then
proceed from that admission to correcting the errors. This one thing
will go very far in allowing Baha'is to become what they have the
potential to become. Insisting that errors cannot be made and refusing
to correct obvious mistakes, denying they actually are mistakes, is
what got the Baha'i Faith in the muddle it currently occupies.

> The way I've been treated by Queen Karen

Tsk tsk. I understand the frustration, and name calling isn't the most
beneficial response.

> just reinforces the whole power
> scheme that Queen Alison

Shucks. These people are human, just like everyone else, so, as I see
it, it's more beneficial to try to overcome temptation to call them
names. The point about moderated lists is one that very much resonates
with me, though. I can appreciate frustrations caused by the
circumstance of someone spending time and effort composing a message to
share with others on a list, and then some moderator rejects it. This
is one reason that an unmoderated forum is so much better. People get
to post what they like, and can choose to read or not read as they
please, without anyone else coming in between.

> and her consort Steve have set up at talisman9 to
> set their own limits on the interpretations that are allowed to be shared
> there. This when Alison has no right to interfer in the moderation on
> talisman9 and it was a definite conflict of interests for Steve to allow
> himself to be influenced as a moderator.

See above.

> Steve's crudeness and coarseness here on TRB shows where his head is truly
> at. I have always found it more offensive than humorous even though it was
> Nima who was the target and not me.

Some people here throw a lot of humour into posts here, even if it's
not universally considered funny. I see all these responses, sarcastic,
humourous, enraged, etc. as evidences of deep commitment to Baha'i and
the response of people who feel betrayed by those who they least
expected to betray them, the Universal House of Justice, for Goodness
sake, or for those who still wish to cling to a belief in the goodness
of the Universal House of Justice, the people here who call themselves
Baha'is and speak so disrespectfully of the Universal House of Justice.
Etc.

The advantage of an unmoderated list is that the posts can all be
posted, and then it's up to each person to select what s/he wishes to
read.

> As for Queens Alison and Karen. Well Alison words in her post to me to me
> speak volumes for themselves, I'll let her word speak for themselves. As for
> Karen, since she chose to overlook Alison's impling that I am a heretic in
> favor of putting me down simply sharing the truth, well that speaks volumes
> about Karen's integrity.

As I've said before, I feel very much like an alien here. I can't
deduce anyone's thought patterns or whatever. I also believe deeply
that the reality around us very largely is influenced by our perception
of it. I try hard to do what I think is also encouraged in the Baha'i
texts, to look with a bright and optimistic eye. One can be careful,
prudent and attentive. And still, my expectation is that if people are
viewed, like Abdu'l Baha encouraged, as well wishers, then that's how
the world looks, and, in my opinion, treating people as if they're
friends has a much better chance of having them actually behave as
friends than treating them as enemies does.

> To be honest I've been left with a bad taste in my mouth and I will leave
> the sleepy, block heads to themselves as Baha'u'llah would advise.
>
> All I really have to say is: there is only us, we are them; as Baha'u'llah
> said, but could never live up to, 'as one soul'.
>
> You Michael, Alison, Karen, Steve, all the members of the Universal Hose of
> Justice, all one hundred billion of us human beings to have graced and
> disgraced this earth, all 'as one soul'.

I like very much that concept of viewing all as one soul.

> Though the sleepy heads would deny the obvious truth and call others
> heretics simply because their interpretations differ from their own, the
> truth is that there is only us, we are them, 'as one soul'; sleppy heads and
> the awakened alike.

Exactly. I'd not worry overmuch about name calling. It's living a life
that demonstrates what really is that's more beneficial, in my opinion,
than any names that get bandied about.

> Yours Larry

Very Best Wishes, Michael

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