Re: Can someone make sense out of this theologian thing for me?


<smaneck@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:1134594295.388486.270910@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> Oh, I think it makes a great deal of difference whether or not you
> believe this comes from God.

I think the for me the question is whether there is any useful meaning to
saying a law is 'divine' or 'comes from God' when the observable process by
which the law comes into being is essentially the same as the way other bodies
make laws. That this is the way Baha'u'llah willed laws to be made in this
dispensation is fine by me but I'm not very good at belief - I don't
understand it.

>
> As I suggested, social welfare and education seem to be under the
> jurisdiction of the Houses of Justice not the executive, so presumably
> the money goes there.

In the terms in which I and most people I talk to use 'executive' and
'legislature' the above simply says that the Houses of Justice perform some
executive functions. That a careful study of the historical roots of the
Baha'i ideas might indicate that this wasn't the way the terms were used at
the time may be interesting to some people but is not important. It seems to
me counter-productive to insist that instead of saying something plainly in
modern English we must always use the terminology of Abdul-Baha and Shoghi
Effendi which means we always have to be qualifying what we say with a
historical gloss.

>
> That brings us around to the question of whether any text can be
> understood apart from the context in which it was written. As a
> historian its my inclination to say at best it can be understood only
> partially.

I think I'd go a lot further than that and I don't think you have to be
historian. It's quite clear that contemporary texts are normally only
understood partially. Indeed, many texts are misunderstood even when one is
reasonably familiar with their contexts. That's the big problem with theories
of infallibility - whats the use of an infallible/immaculate text when you are
not an infallible understander.
Its the main reason why I put much greater emphasis on Baha'u'llah than on the
AB/SE/UHJ documents. I feel that in some way a revelatory text has to be
different. I don't suggest that I can understand Baha'u'llah out of context
better than Abdul-Baha (actually I think I can but that's just because
Abdul-Baha's style is so alien to me).
What I do think or at least hope is that there is something about Revelation
which guides aright even when one isn't really capable of understanding it.
If that hypothesis isn't in some way true than I don't see any sense in being
a Baha'i or a follower of any otherc revealed religion.
>
>
> I don't know that what the House is saying with those quotations is all
> that different from what you are saying.


No I don't have any strong disagreement with the House on this. It's a
language difference I suppose. I don't see the point of describing 'making
social laws' as a religious function when the vast majority of people in the
contemporary world don't use the words like that. And if we are going to
insist on those words I think we have to find some better way of saying why we
regard this particular example of law-making as religious than just saying
that historically it grew up in a culture that regarded making laws as
religious.


.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Stoning to death - Barbaric
    ... Islamic law at one time in the history of mankind. ... That's not what I'm saying. ... that he DIDN'T come to abolish the laws which came before. ... technologies etc. there was a need that the old religion simply could not fill. ...
    (soc.religion.bahai)
  • Re: Can someone make sense out of this theologian thing for me?
    ... > saying a law is 'divine' or 'comes from God' when the observable process by ... That this is the way Baha'u'llah willed laws to be made in this ... that is what religion is about. ... > insist on those words I think we have to find some better way of saying why we ...
    (talk.religion.bahai)
  • Re: Yes, The Bible Really Does Condemn Homosexuality
    ... Several billion more don't give a shit. ... So you're saying that the entire population of planet earth has to ... What I'm saying is that laws should be secular and religion is ...
    (alt.vacation.las-vegas)
  • Re: Bristol gay couple win Cornwall B&B bed ban case
    ... The Archbishop of Canterbury needs to accept that religious beliefs are ... Or those who believe in the wrong religion, ... The anti-discrimination laws should be similarly ... in B&B windows saying "No dogs, no blacks, no Irish" so long as the ...
    (uk.legal)
  • Re: How can light travel without losing energy?
    ... What I am saying is that, ... MIGHT produce a similar reduction in energy to the reduction in velocity ... >from finding those laws or good approximations thereof. ... >our understanding of the laws of physics are adequate: ...
    (sci.physics.research)