Re: Arab-Israeli Fatalities Rank 49th

"HHW" <coaster132000@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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On Oct 25, 7:58 am, "Stan Engel" <Stan_en...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"HHW" <coaster132...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:1193258759.927981.101050@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

On Oct 18, 2:36 am, Stan Engel <stan_en...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Oct 18, 7:46 am, HHW <coaster132...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Oct 8, 11:00 am, "DoD" <danskisan...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Oh, now I understand.

You're an unacknowledged clip artist, Stan, but I'll
follow you nonetheless.

Whatever.


It's not a "whatever". It's a slimy debating tactic used by the
insecure or amoral.

I know otherwise. BTW, are a psychologist? Answer the question.

No, it's plain that you have no understanding at all
about what was written. Your remarkably incorrect
conclusions show that.

The U.S. takes the heat, the casualties, the
economic burden and then,

Uhh, no. It's Israel that takes the burden from the
constanmt terrorism directed against it by the Arabs.
Back in March 2002 there was the Park Hotel Seder
massacre that left 30 dead. Israel responded and
Colin Powell urged "restraint" on Israel. In 2005 Bush
forced Israel to withdraw from the border separating
Gaza from Egypt. That made it easy to smuggle
weapons to use against Israel.

You resent even tiny indications by your "ally" that it wants to
follow its own interests, that it objects to the main thrust of
Israeli policy because it is injurious to the United States and has
been for forty years.

I like how freaks like yourself make a lot of insulting remarks and then
pretend they are "tiny indications." "Mildest criticism" is another
favorite
of your type and it means shitloads of anti-Jew lies.

The tiny indications of the fact that America has a different agenda
and natural interests were reflected the American policy about the
Egyptian border with Gaza you just got through whining about. I didn't
deliver them. Our State Department and Administration did. Point out a
single US State Department "anti-Jew lie". And if you think I make
them point them out to and we'll talk about it.

The original posting in this thread listed some of the various wars that
have killed many, including Moslems. Your response was this: "Oh, now I
understand. The U.S. takes the heat, the casualties, the economic burden and
then, later, the israelis cop a plea to a misdemeanor instead of a felony
and rejoin the community of nations without a blemish on their escutcheon.
Fine, fine, but in the meantime it's a huge kick in the teeth for 99+% of
the American people." Your response had nothing to do with the initial post.
It was just a chance to insult Jews. Then you add the Mein Kampf stuff about
ringlet wearing obscurantists.

One point you've made is that Jews control the US government. If that was
the case, the Israelis would never have abandoned the Gaza-Egypt border.

You resent even veiled suggestions that the
Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine perpetrated by Ben-Gurion under a cloud
of secrecy and then later lied about for decades is a legitimate basis
for the Palestinian Rebellion and national movement.


You're not very subtle, Stanley. I'm still back at the
Egyptian border.

Still? I was the one who brought it up. You didn't respond when I did but
now you're *still* there.

I'm refering to an American recognition of the basic
legitimacy of the Palestinian national resistance. What
do you think the American decision to prevent a 100%
blockade of the Gazan people reflected?

It reflects the stupidity of the American government by believing Arab lies
for even one second. It shows that the Arabs have enough influence to get
America to squeeze Israel to abandon a vital military position. It's because
of that that Israel faces constant missile bombardment.

I like that: veiled suggestions. Yes, I resent liars like you who make
veiled suggestions that are false.

The veiled suggestions came from the State Department. I don't make
them. I say what I think with no concern whatever whether foul mouthed
types such as you will be offended. I do, however, consider my views
carefully. I like to be able to defend them. I ask you to recall now
that I support Israel as do most Americans.

Having considered your request, I say no. You're just garbage who makes
neo-nazi comments but *claims* every so often to support Israel.

Anybody checking newspaper articles from
1948 will find no mention of innocent Arabs being forced from their homes
at
Zionist gunpoint.

Whose papers are you speaking of?

Times of London (which I mentioned) and the New York Times.

The Times of London went into detail about Hafia where the
75,000 Arabs had a meeting and decided to leave.

Yes, that's what the nameless reporter in Haifa wrote back then. The same
newspaper also mentioned the similar Arab evacuation of Tiberias a week
later.

TIME Magazine showed a photo of the 35,000 Arabs
who returned to Israel in late 1949. Those Arabs
didn't return with the knowledge that they had been
initially terrorized to leave in 1948. They wouldn't
have returned had that been so.

See below:

Why? You failed to respond to what I said about TIME Magazine and the Arabs
who returned in late 1949. Since you dishonestly pretended to fully answer I
have no choice but to delete whatever I want.

Haifa is discussed at some length by Dr. Pappe, primarily at
pages 92 to 96. Some excerpts for you:

Well, I'll rely on the TIMES reporter who was there in 1948 - unlike Dr.
Pappe - and saw what happened.

"The early terrorization of the city's Arab population the previous
December had prompted many among the Palestinian elite to leave for
their residences in Lebanon and Egypt until calm returned to their
city. It is hard to estimate how many fell within this category: most
historians put the figure at around 15,000 to 20,000.

"....The truth was that the urban elite in Palestine had collapsed
after a month of heavy Jewish shelling and aggression."

"The departure of the affluent meant that between 55,000 and 60,000
Palestinians in Haifa were leaderless and, given the relatively small
number of armed Arab volunteers in the town, at the mercy of the
Jewish forces in April 1948. This was despite the presence of British
troops in the city, who were theoretically responsible for the locals'
safety and well-being.

"The Jews wanted the port city but without the 75,000 Palestinians who
lived there, and in April 1948 they achieved their obvective.

"The Jewish campaign of terrorization, begun in December, included
heavy shelling, sniper fire, rivers of ignited oil and fuel sent down
the mountain-side, and detonated barrels of explosives, and went on
for the first months of 1948, but it intensified in early April. On
April 18, the day the Palestinians of Tiberias were put to flight,
Major General Hugh Stockwell, the British commander ofthe Northern
Sector seated in Haifa, summoned the Jewish authorities in the city to
his office and informed them that in two days the British forces
would be removed from locations in which they had been serving as a
buffer zone between the two communities."

'The road was open for the de-Arabization of Haifa."

"The task was given to the Carmeli Brigade, one of the top units of
the Jewish army (there were brigades of 'lesser quality' such as
Qiryati, made up of Arab Jews who were sent only on looting or less
attractive 'missions'; the definition of Qiryati as possessing a
'lesser human quality' can be found in the Israeli documents). The
2,000 Carmeli Brigade troops faced a poorly equipped army of 500 local
and mainly Lebanese volunteers, who had inferior arms and limited
ammunition, and certainly nothing to match the armoured cars and
mortars on the Jewish side."

With the departure of the British the name of the operation was
changed to 'Cleansing the Leaven' (bi'ur hametz). "The Hebrew term
stands for total cleansing and refers to the Jewish religious practice
of eliminating all traces of bread or flour from people's homes on the
eve of the Passover.....Brutally appropriate, the cleansing ofHaifa,
in which the Palestinians were the bread and the flour, began on
Passover's eve, 21 April."

The four exhausted Palestinians who met with Stockwell became
disillusioned when he told them that they had better leave the city.
They asked the General to be allowed to leave in orderly fashion. But,
"the Carmeli Brigade made sure they would leave in the midst of
carnage and havoc." (18)

Stockwell was the one who provided the Arabs with trucks to evacuate. The
date of 21 April is wrong as anyone with archive access can show. The Times
correspondent in 1948 said entirely otherwise. I Pappe wants to cite
people's claims from years later it's contradicted by what was recorded at
the time. Pappe is lying.

(snip)>
Yes, Stanley, most of the Palestinians left Haifa.

As I said, read what was written in 1948 and not some invented crap from
decades later.
(snip)

You're lying when you make your claims about good faith. The
Palestinians haven't honored anything they agreed to and try for Israel's
destruction.

The Palestinians' goal is independence in Gaza and the West Bank.

No, it's expelling or killing the Jews. Ask them. Not the bullshitters on
news shows but the average Muslim.

It's
not complex. Everyone knows that Israel's prime motivation in this
stalemate is its desire to keep and/or control all of Palestine. It's
time you tell your community to get this mess settled.

Israel didn't control the West Bank or Gaza from 1948 to 1967. It was the
Arabs, not the Jews, who found those boundaries intolerable. Making lies
about what everybody knows doesn't change that.
(snip)
Talking more ***.

You need to do more reading. Lots more.

You need to do less lying. Lots less.

Nothing whatever could be more destructive to American interests.
Largely as a result of our involvement in this struggle we have
already taken more casualties than has Israel since 1948.

Involvement in *what* struggle? Also, you just made up that crap about
numbers.

But you clipped what I said and now you call it made up. What's made
up?

Are you talking the Israeli conflicts, the Lebanese civil war, the 1991 Gulf
War, today's Iraq war or something else? Answer my question directly.




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