Re: Too Much Medicare "Care" Again


"George Conklin" <georgeconklin1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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"George Conklin" <georgeconklin1@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
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We have known that other nations that spend less on medical
care
get
better
results. Once again we can see why with this following
report:

------

The study of more than 2,000 patients found that those who
underwent
the
expensive procedure, known as angioplasty, in non-emergency
situations
were
no less likely to suffer a heart attack or die than those who
only
took
aspirin and other medicines to thin their blood and lower
blood
pressure
and
cholesterol, along with adopting life style changes.


The study is the first large, well-designed comparison of
angioplasty
to
non-surgical care for patients who are not actually having
heart
attack
or
in imminent danger of one. Patients routinely undergo the
procedure
to
relieve chest pain and to reduce the risk of having or dying
from
a
heart
attack.

"The data are compelling," said William E. Boden of the
University
of
Buffalo, whose findings were released Monday by The New
England
Journal
of
Medicine to coincide with a presentation at a meeting of the
American
College of Cardiology in New Orleans. "We do too many of these
procedures."

Several experts said they expected the findings will prompt a
major
shift
in
how doctors treat thousands of patients suffering from heart
disease --
the
nation's leading cause of death.

"These findings are pretty explosive," said Steven Nissen,
president
of
the
American College of Cardiology. "I think this is going to
shake
things
up
pretty significantly."

The findings underscore the danger of rushing to adopt a
procedure
before
careful studies have been conducted to fully determine its
benefits,
Boden
and others said.

"There was just this intuitive belief that it would be
beneficial,"
Boden
said. "But no one had ever done a proper randomized trial to
see
whether
it
actually improved outcomes. In the meantime, a whole industry
has
been
created around this."

------
Notice the words:

"The findings underscore the danger of rushing to adopt a
procedure
before
careful studies have been conducted to fully determine its
benefits."

Remeber HRT? It was harmful? Now we need to find out about
PSA
tests...so
far no good evidence they do any good either.

Ah, there you go again George. Now you just know that's gonna
draw
me
right
in.

HRT was not harmful. Read the studies and look at the RAW data,
not
just
the sensationalistic conclusisions drawn. But you know what,
I'm
not
here
to talk about HRT.

That is not what mainline science has shown. HRT was harmful,
period.


Let's talk about PSA.

Fact - prostate cancer kills people. Fact - screening with PSA
detects
more
prostate cancer than not screening with PSA. Fact - there have
been
randomized controlled done comparing, after a diagnosis of
prostate
cancer,
men with no surgery vs. men who undergo surgery. This has shown
a
clear
overall and disease specific survival for those treated with
surgery.

So we KNOW operating on prostate cancer saves lives.

Actually you should all up the Feds and have them call of the
PIVOT
studies
since you already know what they are going to show. Do you have
ESP
too?
Or do you just believe in predistination with you serving the
role
of
God?

Pivot study end points are either not up yet or just reached.
Either
way,
we're probably a year or more away from even word of mouth
preliminary
results.

For those of you wondering, Pivot is an American study - RCT -
similar
to
one done in Europe already published.

Actually it is not quite the same at all.

Very similar. I've seen the study design.

And one other study has been
going on for nearly 10 years now and has not published. If there
were
even
a 1% advantage to surgery, it would have been stopped and the
results
published.

That is very incorrect. To stop the study early a very large and
obvious
advantage would have to have been seen.

Correct. So any advantage is very, very small.

Do only extremes exist in your world? If something is not "very large
and
obvious" does that REALLY mean it's "very, very small"? C'mon, stop
playing
a fool.

You are the fool. If any advantage were large, it would have been
established years ago.

You keep playing the fool. I could just as easily (and as baselessly) say
the converse.

Cheer up: you cash cow is probably safe for another
5-10 years.

If you think it's my "cash cow" why haven' tyou addressed my numerous points
to the contrary? Are you too ignorant or afraid?



.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Too Much Medicare "Care" Again
    ... The study of more than 2,000 patients found that those who ... expensive procedure, known as angioplasty, in non-emergency ... whose findings were released Monday by The New England ... HRT was not harmful. ...
    (talk.politics.medicine)
  • Re: Too Much Medicare "Care" Again
    ... The study of more than 2,000 patients found that those who ... expensive procedure, known as angioplasty, in non-emergency ... whose findings were released Monday by The New England ... HRT was not harmful. ...
    (talk.politics.medicine)
  • Re: Too Much Medicare "Care" Again
    ... The study of more than 2,000 patients found that those who ... expensive procedure, known as angioplasty, in non-emergency ... whose findings were released Monday by The New England ... HRT was not harmful. ...
    (talk.politics.medicine)
  • Re: Too Much Medicare "Care" Again
    ... The study of more than 2,000 patients found that those who underwent the ... whose findings were released Monday by The New England Journal ... HRT was not harmful. ... So we KNOW operating on prostate cancer saves lives. ...
    (talk.politics.medicine)
  • Re: Too Much Medicare "Care" Again
    ... The study of more than 2,000 patients found that those who ... expensive procedure, known as angioplasty, in non-emergency ... whose findings were released Monday by The New ... HRT was not harmful. ...
    (talk.politics.medicine)