Re: Study points to positive effect of Australian gun laws


<ozarkheart@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:g1um3410kj3jfo4c1mkegvad2us2ik3ros@xxxxxxxxxx
On Tue, 27 May 2008 02:50:47 GMT, "Blinky Bill" <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:


<ozarkheart@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:8tpm349o46ith1a1256m0jqfo99m6fkibn@xxxxxxxxxx
On Tue, 27 May 2008 01:03:02 GMT, "Blinky Bill" <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:


<ozarkheart@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:p3pk349t6n4via0pi6u09dbktpd4rvc56n@xxxxxxxxxx
On Mon, 26 May 2008 05:58:36 GMT, "Blinky Bill" <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:


<ozarkheart@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:dnek34hdjaknd2qe5ovv745ebrsohvqm1u@xxxxxxxxxx
On Mon, 26 May 2008 02:56:02 GMT, "Blinky Bill" <nospam@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:


<sigh> Identification is not permission.

<sigh> A background check isn't done for purposes of
identification.

<sigh> Of course it is. You are identified as not being a
criminal.

A clumsy two-step and squirm. You are trying to mangle English
again.
What
meaning of "identify" is that?

identify (from Wiktionary)
1.. to establish the identity of someone or something
2.. (biology) to establish the taxonomic classification of an
organism
3.. to equate two or more things
4.. to associate oneself with some group
5.. (topology) To map a number of points to one.
<sigh> The government uses the information from the background check
to
give
permission (or not) for the person to buy a gun, not to establish
someone's
name.

Sorry loser

Indeed, I keep trying to explain that you are a sorry loser that can
barely
write a comprehensible English sentence and you agree with me - bravo,
odiousfart. And presumably your failure to find a valid usage of
"identify"
in the list means that you realise you mangled the English language
once
again.

- but do keep trying.

<s***> Sure.

Keep dancing, dimmy.

I don't have much choice while you keep dancing away from explaining
which
meaning of "identify" you are using.

LOL Posting all the defintions for a word. A very pitiful way to try
and debate. Let's look at your phrase:

"I don't have much choice while you keep dancing away from explaining
which meaning of "identify" you are using."

I =
1. the ninth letter of the English alphabet, a vowel.
2. any spoken sound represented by the letter I or i, as in big, nice,
or ski.
3. something having the shape of an I.
4. a written or printed representation of the letter I or i.
5. a device, as a printer's type, for reproducing the letter

Which definition did you mean?

Have =
1. to possess; own; hold for use; contain: He has property. The work
has an index.
2. to hold, possess, or accept in some relation, as of kindred or
relative position: He wanted to marry her, but she wouldn't have him.
3. to get, receive, or take: to have a part in a play; to have news.
4. to experience, undergo, or endure, as joy or pain: Have a good
time. He had a heart attack last year.
5. to hold in mind, sight, etc.: to have doubts.
6. to cause to, as by command or invitation: Have him come here at
five.
7. to be related to or be in a certain relation to: She has three
cousins. He has a kind boss.
8. to show or exhibit in action or words: She had the crust to refuse
my invitation.
9. to be identified or distinguished by; possess the characteristic
of: He has a mole on his left cheek. This wood has a silky texture.
10. to engage in or carry on: to have a talk; to have a fight.
11. to partake of; eat or drink: He had cake and coffee for dessert.
12. to permit or allow: I will not have any talking during the
concert.
13. to assert, maintain, or represent as being: Rumor has it that
she's going to be married.
14. to know, understand, or be skilled in: to have neither Latin nor
Greek.
15. to beget or give birth to: to have a baby.
16. to hold an advantage over: He has you there.
17. to outwit, deceive, or cheat: We realized we'd been had by an
expert con artist.
18. to control or possess through bribery; bribe.
19. to gain possession of: There is none to be had at that price.
20. to hold or put in a certain position or situation: The problem had
me stumped. They had him where they wanted him.
21. to exercise, display, or make use of: Have pity on him.
22. to invite or cause to be present as a companion or guest: We had
Evelyn and Everett over for dinner. He has his bodyguard with him at
all times.
23. to engage in sexual intercourse with.
-verb (used without object) 24. to be in possession of money or
wealth: There are some who have and some who have not.
-auxiliary verb 25. (used with a past participle to form perfect
tenses): She has gone. It would have been an enjoyable party if he
hadn't felt downcast.
26. to be required, compelled, or under obligation (fol. by
infinitival to, with or without a main verb): I have to leave now. I
didn't want to study, but I had to.
-noun 27. Usually, haves. an individual or group that has wealth,
social position, or other material benefits (contrasted with
have-not).
-Verb phrase28. have at, to go at vigorously; attack: First he decided
to have at his correspondence.
-Idioms29. had better or best, ought to: You'd better go now, it's
late.
30. had rather. rather (def. 7).
31. have done, to cease; finish: It seemed that they would never have
done with their struggle.
32. have had it, a. to become weary of or disgusted with whatever one
has been doing: I've been working like a fool, but now I've had it.
b. to suffer defeat; fail: He was a great pitcher, but after this
season he'll have had it.
c. to have missed a last opportunity: He refused to take any more
excuses and told them all that they'd had it.
d. to become unpopular or passé: Quiz shows have had it.

33. have it coming, to merit or deserve: When they lost their fortune,
everyone said that they had it coming.
34. have it in for, to plan or wish to do something unpleasant to;
hold a grudge against: She has it in for intelligent students who fail
to use their abilities.
35. have it out, to come to an understanding or decision through
discussion or combat: We've been in disagreement about this for a long
time, and I think we should have it out, once and for all.
36. have on, a. to be clothed in; be wearing: She had on a new dress.
b. to have arranged or planned: What do you have on for Christmas?
c. to tease (a person); make the *** of a joke. Compare put (def.
35).

37. have to do with, a. to be connected or associated with: Your lack
of confidence probably had a lot to do with your not getting the job.
b. to deal with; be concerned with: I will have nothing to do with
their personal squabbles.

38. to have and to hold, to possess legally; have permanent possession
of: The house, with the mortgage finally paid, was at last their own
to have and to hold.


Shall I do the rest?

You have reached a truly new low.

This guy was thinking of you
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine


Keep squirming,odiousfart - I haven't seen a dance with spamming like
that
for a along time

Then reread your own posts

OK - original statement stands.



. I assume it means you realise now that you used "identify"
in manner not consistent with normal English and will do anything you can
to
avoid admitting it.

LOL I used identify correctly.

Which of the meanings applied to your usage?










Private sellers
can sell to criminals and the mentally disturbed,

Not legally

Another easily exposed lie.

"Over twenty states regulate all secondary sales through
registration
or
licensing requirements. In the states that have no such
regulation,
the
secondary market allows minors and criminals to easily obtain
weapons.
"
http://www.newsbatch.com/guncontrol.htm




You stated that "Private sellers can sell to criminals and the
mentally disturbed".

And I replied "not legally.

Is that incorrect?

No it is not incorrect - you did indeed reply "not legally". If you
can't
read what you have written, then it is ironic that you accuse me of
having
a
reading comrehension problem.

LOL. Pay attention idiotstick.

<s***> Can't you construct a comprehensible English sentence?


Sure; however you can't read - or rather wont.

Apparently as usual, you couldn't put your "thoughts" onto the keyboard
in
a
coherent fashion, odiousfart.




You made a statement and I pointed out, correctly, that to do so is
illegal.

Of course it isn't illegal for me to make a statement, dopey. Who made
you
a
netcop?

Why is it illegal for me to make a statement, odiousfart?

LOL Another pitiful example of dodging.

You made the claim, odiousfart - explain it.


It is not illegal for you to make a statement (except in certain
cases).

Then why did you say it was illegal for me to make that statement? What
circumstances make it illegal?

However, what you stated - "Private sellers can sell to
criminals and the mentally disturbed" - and what I pointed out - is an
illega act.

Stating that is not illegal - you have reverted from stupid to insane. And
"private sellers can sell to criminals and mentally disturbed" has been show
to be a true staement.


Your attempt to make an issue of something else is simply dishonest on
your part and shows you to be so.

I am always puzzled by your incoherent claims.







<s***> you just failed again - god but you are a stupid dumb***,
odiousfart.


Dance all you want.

Expecting a comprehensible English sentence is "dancing" - you really
don't
have much English do you.





Whether there is a secondary sales registration/licensing
requirement
doesn't matter - it is still illegal to sell to criminals and
mentally
disturbed.

Why? If there is no laws on secondary sales, what stops those sales?

LOL

LOL isn't an answer? Won't or can't answer the question - keep
wriggling.


Pay attention. There are laws.

And I keep asking you to cite laws thatb make it illegal to sell guns to
criminals and you keep dancing away from an answer.

GCA 68

Makes it illegal for the criminal to possess a gun - it doesn't make it
illegal for someone to to sell one to him if the person doesn't know or
suspect the person is a criminal.

LOL Poor attempt at a goal post move dult noted.

"Private sellers can sell to criminals and the mentally disturbed - true or
false.


And I keep asking you to cite laws thatb make it illegal to sell guns to
criminals and you keep dancing away from an answer.

You keep asking and I keep telling you: The GCA of 68 males it
illegal.

Not when the private seller doesn't know the buyer is a criminal,
odiousfart.



And that background check doesn't need to
be done in nearly 30 states.

Never claimed it did, dimbulb.

Never said you did, odiousfart.






Just tell me what stops criminals and the mentally disturbed from
buying
guns privately in the nearly 30 states that have no regulations
covering
such private sales.

It is illegal.

If there are no laws covering secondary sales in nearly 30 states
what
makes
it illegal? I would hope that it is illegal for a violent criminal
to
own
or
possess a firearm, but where there is no law covering secondary
sales,
what
makes the sale itself illegal?

LOL Try federal laws, dimwit.

I've already asked you to cite the laws but you declined.

LOL I thought even someone as stupid as you had would be familar with
the GCA of 68.

Are you so stupid you can't read it, or is this just your usual lying
and
duplicity.
"Under the GCA, firearms possession by certain categories of individuals
is
prohibited."

You wrote : "it is still illegal to sell to criminals and mentally
disturbed."

and when I asked "what makes the sale itself illegal"

you wrote "LOL Try federal laws, dimwit."

So I will ask again - what makes the sale illegal?

Nothing about selling being illegal,

Actually there is - try reading it.

I did - what makes the sale illegal when the seller doesn't know the
criminal history of the buyer, which would be the case in nearly 30 states
that don't require background checks for private sales?

If the seller is unsure, then thye can do a background check.

<sigh> But if they don't, they can legally sell a gun to a criminal - true
or false?







but as I suggested above, it is illegal
for some criminals to possess a firearm. So once again you prove
incapable
of understanding a simple English sentence.








Tell me laws prevent criminals from breaking the law.

Don't be more stupid than usual, odiousfart - if they are criminals
then
by
definition they break the law. Obviously nothing totally stops
people
from
breaking the law

Bingo

Now you have it figured out.

Gun control laws are obeyed by the good citizen - not the criminal.

Bingo indeed, that applies to all laws. If there are no laws covering
secondary sales then "good citizens" can sell guns to anybody,
including
criminals.

However, as has been pointed out to you - there is.

<sigh> you have cited a law which makes it illegal for some criminals to
possess guns, but not one which makes selling guns to them illegal. Try
again, odiousfart.

<sigh>

GCA
section 922
para d, parts 1 - 8

<sigh> "knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person
...."

<sigh> If the seller is not required to do a background check in nearly 30
states, then a seller in those states does not KNOW or have reasonable
cause
to believe that any of the exclusions apply. Therefor odiousfart, a sale
to
a criminal is legal in those circumstances.


And, the seller can do a background check if they wish.

<sigh>And if they dont, they can legally sell a gun to a criminal - true or
false?

Personal responsibilty and all that - something yopu don't seem to be
familar
with.

Why? I have never sold a gun to a criminal.



Criminals don't obey the law.

Deep thinking from odiousfart - I think I'll add that to you hall of
fame
in
my sig.

LOL I notice you make inane comments butdon't refute the statement.

Why would I refute something I agree with - you are a strange and stupid
entity, odiousfart.










. An
unenforced or unenforceable law is almost as ineffective as no law
at
all.



Do a search on "gun show loophole" and educate yourself.

Have you done it yet? Obviously not - let me educate you again.

"United States federal law requires persons engaged in interstate
firearm
commerce, or who are in the business of selling firearms, to hold a
Federal
Firearms License and to perform checks prior to transferring a
firearm,
but
there is an exemption for private sales by individuals who are "not
engaged
in the business" of selling firearms, or who only make "occasional"
sales.
Unlicensed private sellers are permitted by law to sell
privately-owned
guns
at gun shows, or at private locations, in 24 states (as of 1998"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

So Federal law allows private sales without a background check and
nearly
30
states have no regulation of private sales. What law or laws do you
believe
makes the sales illegal?

Federal law prohibits the transfer of guns to criminals and those
adjudged to be "mentally disturbed".

I've asked you to cite such a law, but you have so far declined.

As above

GCA 68 only prohibits possession by the criminal, not the sale itself.

Wrong

Absolutely true in states where background checks are not required which
means the seller doesn't know the buyer is a criminal.

LOL Still running down the field with those goal posts....

I know you are - why don't you stand still for a while.
"Private sellers can sell to criminals and the mentally disturbed" - true or
false?


Homewwork done a long time ago on
my part - quite obvoiusly lacking on your part.

Then produce your evidence. my homework came up with
"United States federal law requires persons engaged in interstate
firearm
commerce, or who are in the business of selling firearms, to hold a
Federal
Firearms License and to perform checks prior to transferring a
firearm,
but
there is an exemption for private sales by individuals who are "not
engaged
in the business" of selling firearms."

See the bit that says "exemption for private sales ...". Are you
claiming
there is a federal law which overturns that? If so, what is it? And if
the
private seller doesn't have to check the purchaser, then how can he
possibly
comply with the federal law that you claim prohibits sales to
criminals
and
the mentally disturbed? How can the seller possibly know the
background
of
the purchaser without such a check?

The seller can run a check.

But in nearly 30 states he doesn't have to because no law requires him
to -
he can quite legally sell a gun to a criminal.

Nope. It is against the law.

It isn't if the seller doesn't know the buyer is a criminal, and the only
way he can do that is with a background check.

Which is quite easy to do.

And which isn't necessary - if it isn't necessary I doubt it will be done
very often, but if you have evidence to the contrary, then present it.






"Inability of Australians to buy a gun for the purpose of self defense."
- odiousfart's contribution to "positive effects of Australian gun laws"

"I am not dead" - odiousfart's self-centred and self obsessed gun loon
response to the fact that his family and community face 4 times the risk of
being killed via homicide than Australians.

"You made a statement and I pointed out, correctly, that to do so is
illegal." - netcop odiousfart shows his understanding of freedom of speech

"Criminals don't obey the law" - deep thought from odiousfart.


.

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