Re: 1911 ACP Cocked and Locked carry
- From: JohnJohnsn <JohnJohnsn@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 08:25:26 -0800 (PST)
On Jan 24, 7:54 am, Benj <bjac...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Somehow thread has been "virused" and had to start over.
AS usual we hear from all the ex-military guys who are convinced that
cocked and so-called "locked" (condition 1) is the only "proper" way
to carry a Colt 1911.
To those guys I will simply repeat the gun safety dogma: Gun safeties
are mechanical devices. Mechanical devices can and do fail. Therefore
being safe means to NEVER rely on a gun safety to keep the gun from
I've heard all the arguments about how "safe" a colt is when it's
carried "cocked and locked" a thousand times. Please stuff it and go
back and read the dogma again. Please tell me that there is something
WRONG with that statement. Tell me that mechanical devices NEVER fail.
Tell me that you are so lucky that when they do fail you are never
going to injuring yourself or others in the event of an AD.
Gun safety is relative, of course. A totally unloaded firearm is way
safer than a loaded one as far as an AD is concerned (The idea behind
the D.C. ban) but MUCH less safe for the gun owner when attacked by
those bent on his murder (also apparently the idea behind the D.C.
ban). The trade-off is an important consideration of your life.
One thing to remember is that the military "cocked an so-called
locked" [I say so-called because it's just a mechanical device. It's
just a tiny tab of metal. Really "locked" would be some large
substantial piece of metal that truly is strong enough to have a
serious chance of low probability of failure. No Colt safety is like
this. Go read the dogma again!] is that the condition 1 carry is for
WAR! In WAR there is danger. Response time is a factor. The danger
from safety failure is of less importance than danger from attack.
The same might be true in some police situations. But unless you ARE
police and know that the worst that can happen to you for killing
someone accidentally is just to be fired from your job and have to
find a new one somewhere, you'd better think twice about what happens
to YOUR life if you have a safety that fails.
And I'll tell you "Walking around like an accident waiting to happen"
guys is that today firearms are a TOTALLY political issue. And what
that means is that when you carry in a way where a mechanical failure
can cause death and destruction, you are taking a chance with ALL our
gun rights. You have an AD and the gun-grabbers will be all over it.
You accidentally shoot some baby in a carriage and we all will have
HELL TO PAY trying to recover from your "right" to rely on a
mechanical device. Hell, we have hell to pay when some scum gang-
bangers shoot an innocent baby or grandmother in a shoot-out. Anti-
gunners in the media all pretend that all gun owners are just gang
members that need to be disarmed. And that means that the gun-
grabbing politicians use those incidents as "political cover" to pass
as much as they can to overthrow the Bill of Rights. THAT is what
your foolishness has the potential to do for all the rest of us!
And it's even worse. Colt in recognizing the potential for an AD from
a dropped firearm with a mechanical failure, added a firing pin block.
This adds one more level of safety. It means you have the "hammer
locking" safety, you have the grip safety, and you also have the
firing pin blocked unless you squeeze the trigger. Three is good. But
does that mean that now mechanical devices cannot fail? Like Hell it
does! And even worse is that some of the "cocked and so-called
locked" crew decide that the firing pin block screws up their trigger
action so they remove it! Others decide that the grip safety is a
problem and they pin that as well. Thanks a lot guys for trying to
make yourself a news story to be used for the overthrow of the Second
Amendment! STUPID! LOONEY!
The bottom line is that YOU will have to judge any self-defense
situation. If it's WAR then Cocked and locked makes some sense. But
if you aren't willing to walk around with that muzzle pointed right at
your OWN 'nads and feel that your external situation is dangerous
enough to justify it (means you'd trade your 'nads to keep your life)
then clearly you shouldn't be putting that danger onto other people!
Note too that "Condition Red" carry justifies a lot. That would be in
ACTIVE engagement. Could be WAR. Could be on a hot range. But when
the shooting is over the gun should be totally UNLOADED. THAT is a
mechanical operation that makes it really safe. Yet, how many people
have you heard of being shot with an "unloaded" firearm? More than
ZERO for sure! Just shows you that safety takes CONSTANT attention to
details. And again in these political times we ALL are depending on
each other NOT to do stupid things that give anti-gunners the
ammunition they need to disarm America.
Carry in "condition Yellow" (the usual case for CCW) is not "war".
Condition yellow means you are PAYING ATTENTION to what is going on
around you. Hopefully that will give you the time you need to rack the
slide. If not, then think about serving your country by not being the
person who "closes the gun show loophole" or "reinstates the assault
weapon ban" or, God forbid, overthrows all of the last of our gun
rights. There is MUCH more at stake here than a few nanoseconds
response time or the really nice "feel" of your 1911 with disabled
Think about it.
Think about this:
Samuel Colt's original 1908 design didn't even HAVE a thumb-operated
safety. The weapon was designed and intended by Colt to be carried
with a round in the chamber and the hammer cocked (now known as
"Condition 0"), utilizing the grip safety as the ONLY "safety."
The thumb safety was added in 1910 at the army's request, but even
then soldiers were trained to carry the pistol with an empty chamber
and the hammer down ("Condition 3"). The safety cannot even be engaged
in this condition.
This led to a maneuver called the "MP Twist".
The M1911 (and later M1911A1) was carried in a flap holster which
incorporated a leather "wedge" which pushed against the side of the
trigger guard, thereby "kicking" the grip outwards away from the
Many MPs, who were more likely to have to draw and fire their pistols
quickly than any other soldiers, taught themselves to withdraw the
chamber-empty/hammer-down ("Condition 3") pistol upwards until the
nose cleared the leather wedge, twist the piston counter-clockwise
approx. 90 degrees, jamming the pistol back down into the holster and
catching the slide on the top of the wedge, then completing the draw
with a now-charged sidearm, ready to engage their targets.
Needles to say, this maneuver was NOT taught by army firearms
instructors to the "regular" troops. :)
Just remember, Benji: one cannot "idiot-proof" ANYTHING: nature just
creates more and better IDIOTS!
- 1911 ACP Cocked and Locked carry
- From: Benj
- 1911 ACP Cocked and Locked carry