Re: Increased gun crime in Britain

Blinky Bill wrote:
"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message news:46e617ee$0$16306$88260bb3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Blinky Bill wrote:
"RD (The Sandman)" <rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> wrote in message news:Xns99A7AD2324CA7Sandman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Trevor Wilson <trevor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
news:46e5c4d7$0$5914$88260bb3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

RD (The Sandman) wrote:
Trevor Wilson <trevor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
news:46e5bbfd $0$16378$88260bb3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

RD (The Sandman) wrote:
Trevor Wilson <trevor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
news:46e5a540$0$4367$88260bb3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

However, just for my information, is it your contention that the
only
successful use of a gun in self defense involves the death of the
attacker?
**Nope.
Trevor, have you gone and looked at the cite I gave you?
**Yep.
And? You still wish to stick with your claim of 200 by the FBI?
**The data supplied by the FBI pertains to the number of DGUs
resulting in the death of the perp.
Actually, no, it really doesn't. It only includes those deaths where the
decision was made on-site and the shooter not charged. It does not
include court judgements later where the decision of the court was that
the shooting was, in fact, in self defense.
Where can evidence for that claim be found? The FBI site itself says "The Program classifies justifiable homicides separately and limits the definition to: (1) the killing of a felon by a law enforcement officer in the line of duty; or (2) the killing of a felon, during the commission of a felony, by a private citizen".

No mention of whether the shooter was charged or of self defense.
**I am sure that RD can back up his claim. He is the least dishonest person in TPG.

I await his reply with great interest. As for a court decision of "self defense", the USDOJ site tabulates the following reasons for justifiable homicide - "attacked cop", "attacked citizen", "fled or resisted", "disrupted crime" and "undetermined". ("undetermined" puzzles me - if the reason for the homicide was undetermined, how could it be classified as justifiable?)

**Yeah, it's all a bit mystifying. The real worry is that some DGUs, which have resulted in the death of the perp, may be plain ole' homicide, where the 'victim' just feared for his/her life and shot the other guy anyway. The court then accepted the pitiful excuse for taking another person's life and let them off accordingly. I understand this has occured more than once in the US. I KNOW it has happened in Australia and I, for one, am unhappy about such people being let loose in society.


We're getting closer to that 1.5 million figure. Only 1,599,700 to go.

I assume that has a typo in it. You are too generous. In 2005, there were 192 justifiable homicides by private citizens (USDOJ). That total includes all justifiable homicides, not just those using a firearm.

**Possibly. However, I am averaging the figure at (a generous) 200. I am also allowing for around 100 extra DGUs where the perp was not killed. Hence the figure of 300.

Trevor Wilson

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