Re: Increased gun crime in Britain

On Tue, 11 Sep 2007 08:40:18 +1000, Trevor Wilson
<trevor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Scout wrote:
"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:46e5a540$0$4367$88260bb3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Scout wrote:
"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:46e481ad$0$30102$88260bb3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Scout wrote:
"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:46e36fb1$0$4422$88260bb3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
jfma@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Sat, 08 Sep 2007 16:22:52 +1000, Trevor Wilson
<trevor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

jfma@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 11:55:31 +1000, Trevor Wilson
<trevor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

ozarkheart@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 10:52:24 +1000, Trevor Wilson
<trevor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

John-Melb wrote:
On Aug 28, 10:59 pm, John-Melb <mcnamara_j...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
On Aug 27, 1:10 am, John-Melb <mcnamara_j...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On Aug 26, 11:21 pm, Phil Smythe <smy...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Therefore would you explain what was your basis for claiming
"Gun
crime in Britan has doubled" given that the article you
posted does
not support this claim.
Wasn't my claim, whole text copied and pasted from another
source.
Sorry I didn't check the every aspect of the technical
correctness of
something I posted, would you demand the same level of
technical
correctness from an anti-gun poster?
And I'm still waiting for a simple answer Phil, would you
demand the
same level of technical
correctness from an anti-gun poster?
Still waiting?

**You keep mentioning the words "anti-gun poster' as if they
have some meaning.
And you have used the term "nutter" as if it has some meaning.
**Non-sequitur.

You need to define "anti-gun poster".
And you "nutter".
**As you wish:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nutter

"2. British Slang. an insane person."

or:

"Slang
A crazy or eccentric person."

or:

"noun
a person who is regarded as eccentric or mad"

Are you seriously incapable of looking this stuff up for yourself?


I, for instance, am not an "anti-gun poster". I am, however,
very much in favour of tough, sane, homogeneous gun control
laws, which operate across the entire nation.
Whic shows that you do not understand our Consitution, our laws
and
customs here in the "States".
**Non-sequitur. Points:

* We are discussing gun crime in BRITAIN.
* As a cursory examination of my headers will indicate, I am not
an American.
* John is an Australian.
* This is an INTERNATIONAL newsgroup.


Educate yourself so you don't speak like an ignoramus.
**Gratuitous insult, duly noted. I suggest YOU do some rudimentary
research, BEFORE you type your posts.

I have ZERO problems with people who use guns responsibly in
various pursuits, including: Extermination of feral animals,
culling sick, injured and over-populated species, target
shooting, collecting, etc.
But not for self defense. LOL Strange set of priorites you have.
**Guns are so rarely used for self defence, that it barely factors
into the stats.

Only because you will only accept the lowest number that is
published and that is for dead bodies reported to the FBI. You
keep
going back to those numbers even after you have been shown they are
too low. It seems that you cannot take in anything that isn't
spoon
fed to you by gun control zealots like Tim Lambert and the gun
control organizations that intentionally distort the truth
**Then feel free to supply the truth.
Been there done that, but you don't want to hear the truth.
**Sure I do.


All
you want to do is continuously spread the same old and worn out
disproved material over and over again, hoping that it will magically
turn into the truth one day.
**Disproved? No chance. At no time has anyone disproven the FBI data.
Not once. Not ever.
Yes, they have.
**Then cite your alternate data which disproves the figures supplied by
the FBI. Cite your source material as well.
Already done.
**Nope. Not once.

I have supplied you with numerous example, multiple times. Your denial of
this can only be the result of an intentional desire to lie.

Until you supply your alternate data,

Already done.

**Nope. Not once. You have NEVER proven the FBI data incorrect. As
usual, you cannot supply any data to support your case.


I will assume that the FBI data is correct.

You can assume all you like, but your assumptions doesn't make the FBI data
correct nor extend that data to support the assertions you make about the
number of annual DGU events.

**Then supply your alternate data which proves that the FBI data
pertaining to justifiable homicides is incorrect.


After all, by your data a DGU is only valid if someone dies. Is that how you
count DGU events?

**Nope.



However, just for my information, is it your contention that the only
successful use of a gun in self defense involves the death of the
attacker?
**Nope.

Then by your own admission the FBI data is in error since it only counts
those DGU events in which the attacker is killed.

**The FBI data is correct. Your inability to supply alternate data
attests to that fact.


"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
news:4637b908$0$23226$88260bb3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



Here are the FBI figures for the last few years:
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_14.html
2001 - 183
2002 - 189
2003 - 203
2004 - 166
2005 - 143



WOUNDED



Dothan Eagle, Dothan, AL, 10/10/02
State: AL
American Rifleman Issue: 1/1/2003
A newspaper carrier saved the day, and a man's life, when he
shot a man holding a gun to the head of a Birmingham, Ala.,
convenience store clerk during a robbery. Sam Harper was outside a
Chevron convenience store filling newspaper racks when he saw a man
put on a wig and burst into the store, screaming at clerk Tom Burnett
and pointing a shotgun at Burnett's head. Harper acted immediately by
drawing his own gun, entering the store and firing three times at the
gunman. The wounded robber dropped his shotgun but ran toward Harper,
who shot him twice more. "I just reacted," Harper said. "It was total
chaos, and it was pretty terrifying." Burnett credits Harper with
saving his life. "I was looking down the barrel of a shotgun, and a
shotgun don't miss," he said.


Las Vegas Sun, Las Vegas, NV, 10/08/02
State: NV
American Rifleman Issue: 1/1/2003
A man was shot in the buttocks by an armed Las Vegas homeowner
when several men broke into a home in an attempted burglary. The shot
sent the would-be burglars running; one suspect jumped from a
second-story window. Police arrested four men, including the wounded
man, and charged them with burglary with use of a deadly weapon and
home invasion. North Las Vegas Police Lt. Victor Dunn said the
suspects were going through the neighborhood knocking on doors,
looking for an empty house.


Daily Oklahoman, Oklahoma City, OK, 07/17/02
State: OK
American Rifleman Issue: 10/1/2002
The owner of a Marietta, Okla., jewelry store shot and killed
one of two armed men who attempted to rob his store. Two men had
walked into Norton's Jewelry Store as Ronnie Norton and his wife,
Barbara, were preparing to close for the evening. Norton saw the
suspicious men approaching and slipped his .32-cal. handgun into his
belt. They asked to see a $2,500 wedding set, and Norton went to the
safe to retrieve the rings with one man following him. When Barbara
Norton saw that man reach into his pocket, she ran for the door but
was stopped by the other man who pulled a gun on her. Norton turned to
see what was going on, and the man with him pulled a handgun. When the
gunman ordered the storeowner to the floor, Norton feared he would be
shot in the back of the head. He made his move, and a struggle ensued
during which his assailant was fatally wounded. His attacker's
accomplice fired several shots at Norton, who returned fire with his
own gun. The second gunman and two accomplices waiting outside fled
the scene. Though frightened, the Nortons were uninjured. The
storeowner said he and his wife plan to reopen the store, but will
never feel completely safe again. "We are always going to be alert and
ready for something to happen," he said.


Savannah Morning News, Savannah, GA, 06/27/02
State: GA
American Rifleman Issue: 9/1/2002
Bartender Anne Werner was alone in the Anchorage Lounge,
waiting for the night crew from the paper mill to come in after work.
Suddenly there was a commotion at the package store adjoining the bar.
Werner looked through the window between the two businesses in time to
witness two masked men enter the store. One would-be robber lunged
toward clerk Richard Huggins, who pulled a gun and shot the man. The
second suspect pulled his wounded accomplice out of the store and then
fled. Werner said, "it sounded like a fight at the OK Corral, and
Richard [Huggins] was Wyatt Earp." When Savannah police arrived they
found suspect Jamison Dixon seriously wounded outside the shop. Dixon
died at the scene and police were still looking for the second
suspect.


The Trentonian, Trenton, NJ, 06/15/02
State: NJ
American Rifleman Issue: 9/1/2002
Two masked men entered a Trenton, N.J., area liquor store and
one, armed with a handgun, pushed the gun through a small window in
the cashier's glass enclosure, announced a robbery and demanded cash
from store owner Praveen Malhotra. The owner grabbed his own .357 Mag.
pistol and fired two shots, hitting the suspect in the chest and
sending the second robber fleeing. The wounded suspect, identified by
police as Steven Gudger, was taken to the hospital for treatment.
Gudger, an escapee from Riverfront Prison, faced charges of armed
robbery, aggravated assault and illegal possession of a weapon.


The Tennesean, Nashville, TN, 5/20/02
State: TN
American Rifleman Issue: 8/1/2002
A Forest Hills, Tenn., man shot and wounded two masked
burglars after they broke into his home. Roy Luckett was awakened
about 2 a.m. when his burglar alarm activated. He picked up his wife's
..38-cal. revolver loaded with 'snake shot' and searched the house.
Upon hearing a noise in the furnace room he opened the door and
discovered two shadowy figures skulking in the darkness. According to
police, the suspects were wearing masks and armed with rifles. Luckett
fired at the men, emptying the gun. He then ran upstairs to get his
..45-cal. pistol. Meanwhile, the pair of bandits tried to force open
Luckett's garage door so they could escape. They fired 14 shots from
at least one rifle into Patsy Lucketts sport-utility vehicle before
making their escape. The pair was later arrested when they sought
medical aid. Luckett says he has no idea why the bandits didnt leave
when his alarm sounded. "They were lucky I didn't take the .45," he
said. "No telling what would have happened. God just guided me through
that night."


The Wichita Eagle, Wichita, KS, 05/23/02
State: KS
American Rifleman Issue: 8/1/2002
A Wichita, Kan., smoke shop owner shot and wounded an armed
robber in his store after the man tried to shoot him. Lorenzo Harding,
owner of H&H Cigarette Shop, told police he was with a customer when
an armed man burst into his shop. The man reportedly pulled a mask
down to cover his face, said Sgt. Jeff Davis. "Initial reports are
that he was trying to fire the gun, but the gun jammed," Davis said.
The owner then pulled a handgun from under his counter and fired one
shot at the man.


The Star Press, Muncie, IN, 4/10/02
State: IN
American Rifleman Issue: 6/1/2002
A convicted bandit's latest crime spree was brought to a halt
by an armed store clerk in a Muncie, Ind., convenience store. A clerk
at Zipp's Deli told investigators a man [later identified as Willie
Brown] came into the store, told the clerk he had a gun in his jacket
and demanded money from the cash register. Brown allegedly got away
with some cash, but not before the clerk fired his own gun at the
robber, hitting him at least once. Police found the wounded man a few
minutes later in a nearby home. Money allegedly taken from the deli
was recovered, as well, according to authorities. Brown has two
previous convictions for robbery and burglary and was released from
prison last May, according to state Department of Correction records.


Richmond Times-Dispatch, Richmond, VA, 1/08/02
State: VA
American Rifleman Issue: 4/1/2002
Two men armed with handguns entered a Richmond, Virginia,
mini-mart and demanded money from the owner, who was alone in the
store. When the robbers began to pistol-whip the owner, he grabbed his
own pistol and shot one of his attackers. The wounded robber, fleeing
with cash and lottery tickets, collapsed on the sidewalk, and his
cohort escaped in a car. Police spokeswoman Jennifer Reilly said the
men matched descriptions of two who had held up other stores in South
Richmond the previous day.






James F. Mayer
President
J F M Electronic Systems, Inc. Surge Protection for Access Control
E-Mail jfma@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Web Page http://home.netcom.com/~jfma/
EarthLink Revolves Around You.
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