Re: Gun Reform in Australia

Phil Smythe wrote:
0:-> wrote:
Phil Smythe wrote:

What a sad, pathetic response that was.
Opening with an ad hom?

Not at all, see below.

High on emotion and mock
indignation, short on logic.
Yes, apparently that is your tactic. Interesting give your comment.....

You appear to not understand what an ad hominem comment is. I'll
explain it for you, slowly.

An ad hominem comment is one directed at the person rather than their
arguments.
My comment stands, your argument was high on emotion and mock
indignation and short on logic. A good example of an ad hominem was
your gratuitous statement " Are folks in your country in the habit of
being mostly out of control?". The points raised were ignored while you
tried, poorly, to insinuate a situation rthat doesn't exist.

Sir, there is grammatically NO difference between my statement and yours.

Your statement:
"What a sad, pathetic response that was."

Since it addresses MY statement, it then labels ME.

My statement:
"Are folks in your country in the habit of being mostly out of control?"

In fact YOUR retort addresses ME directly, and mine, the general population out of which some might qualify.

You are, to put it bluntly, sir, a liar.

You are deliberately, unless you acknowledge and apologize, attempting to mislead the reader. Shame on you.

Your main tactic appears to be the ad hominem attack. Just denigrate
the poster and everything he believes and you think you've proved your
point. Silly mistake.
This is a forum most often used for debate. That means disagreeing with
something, and in this instance, since the poster is putting gun
possession up for consideration I hardly think it possible to argue
against his argument without arguing against ....well, HIS FUCKING
ARGUMENT, IN FULL.

Indeed it is used for debate, and clearly in your case for ramming your
"FUCKING
ARGUMENT" down someone else's throat.

How could I do that, any more than he our you would be, by posting your words here?

Notice he is invoking MORE law enforcement as a problem solver. What was
MY counter argument?

Your "counter argument" was "We have a unique view of such
things...and, and Aussie Child, you don't. Your view is Old World. Ours
is New World. There is a three or four thousand year difference." which
is not so much an argument as a poor attempt to discredit your opponent
by name calling and outrageous hyperbole. Are you getting the picture?
That's a classic ad hom, penned by you.

The only part would be the "child" part and the rest has to do with argument....that the mindset exhibited is a general one held by those that adhere to European standards of the loving acceptance of the Nanny State.

Your facts are anything but. Your claim "There is a three or four
thousand year difference" is only out by 3,876 to 2,876 years.
The concept of rule by force (which is what monarchy and pure democracy
ARE) is older even than I mentioned.

Nice avoidance of your non-facts being exposed.

Which non-facts would that be?

You blather on tha "We tend to, in the majority, not be a danger to
each other" but appear oblivious to difference in murder rates. I'll
give you some help, the US murder is 3 times higher than Australia's.
And going down, and currently at record lows....ALL TIME RECORD LOWS.

But STILL 3 times higher I notice.

So what? Ours is going down, yours up. The argument is that gun control will lower violent crime, including murder. Where is the lowering in your country. Your violent crime rate is up regardless of the means.

That's about violent crime, and ours is confined, as I mentioned to a small segment geographically speaking.

And "murder" isn't the only VIOLENT CRIME. Please look at those stats.

Have done so many times. And noticed how in the US the use of firearms
in violent crimes is many, many times that of Australia.

Dead, robbed, injured, are the same whether or not a gun is used. You are showing the attitude of the typical hoplophobic gun grabber now. "It's the guns."

And no, it isn't the guns. It's the criminals with the guns.

You have a highly restrictive gun control system and it HAS NOT LOWERED VIOLENT CRIME OR MURDER TO AN APPRECIABLE RATE.

We have a every liberalized gun control system, with more and more of our states mandating SHALL ISSUE concealed carry permits, and roughly a third of the population gun owners.

That's supposed to, according to your arguments, cause violent crime to RISE. Our violent crime rates are at a 40 year all time record low, and 30 low for murder.

What factor might be, against the supposed "guns cause crime" pressure, be causing the overwhelming drop in rates of violence and murder in our country?

As for your laughable line "And stand up and be your own men, managing
your own affairs?", that only shows how precious little you know. We do
manage our own affairs, and quite succesfully too.
Not on the subject under question. Your society is seeing a growing
problem with violence and in fact even with GUNS. Ours, is seeing less
violent crime.

What a stunning hyprocrite you are! YOU raise a point, but when it is
countered you claim it is "Not on the subject under question".
Pathetic.

">> And "murder" isn't the only VIOLENT CRIME. Please look at those stats."

That is what I said last. Then you replied as above..in "As for your laughable line...."

In other words, I brought up the subject of "murder" not being the only crime, and you, liar, twisted away JUST AS YOU ARE FALSELY ACCUSING ME OF, and pulling an older statement out of the hat to avoid dealing with what I just brought up.

You are a country suffering from violent crime GOING UP. Ours is going down.

You have far more restrictive gun laws than ours and far fewer guns per capita.

We have far less restrictive gun laws and far more guns per capita (today at a ratio of one for every man, women, and child in our country..in the hands of about a third of the population.)

Can you explain this paradox or are you going to dance away again, and claim that "it's the guns," without providing factual support, or change the subject?

Even our "murder" rates tend to be generated by a very small
demographic, in a very limited geographic boundary. Inner city ghettos.

EVERY country's murder rates are generated by a small demographic, or
dodn't you know that?

Of course I know that. Murders are a small subset of any society. You know perfectly well what I meant.

That violence and murder happen among mostly the criminal set, and confined more often than not to a small geographical area.

YOUR violence is spilling out into the more general population. Ours is not.

Reference our "Watts Riots" and you'll see why we that live in less crime ridden areas are more safe from overflow than you.

Yours? Well, check your news. Your violence crime tends to be more
dispersed throughout your cities whole boundary area.

You have a habit of ignoring the most telling challenges, don't you, Smythe?


If you wish to parade your ignorance and attack dog mentality to the
world that is your choice.
I know.

Now try for something different.

Try, instead of making claims, support them.

Your pompous indignation is hardly an argument.

The data on violent crime, even violent GUN crime in Australia has been
thoroughly discussed in this ng recently. What came out was just what I
have stated.

Do some data gathering on both countries for your next argument with me.

I'll be more than happy to show you where the holes are in the 3 times
more likely bull***.

Not only are you a pompous blowhard, but clearly a glutton for
punishment.

From YOU? R R R R RR

> I did NOT make any claim about " 3 times more likely".

I misstated. I believe another poster from AU made that claim some time back. My apologies.

> I
stated, categorically, that the US murder rate is 3 times Australia's.
That is a FACT, no mattter how inconvenient that might be for you.

It's not the least inconvenient because I am happy to know that, one, it is confined in my country to a very small subset of already criminal perpetrators, and more often than not the victim is one of their own.

And two, OURS IS STILL GOING DOWN.

You do not enjoy either of these conditions.

AND WE HAVE MORE GUNS BY FAR THAN YOU DO and still these improve conditions prevail here, while you have far less than we, with draconian gun control, including confiscations, and YOUR VIOLENT CRIME RATE IS RISING.

If you wish to dispute that please provide cited evidence,

I don't dispute my actual errors. I acknowledge them.

I'm not a weaseling dodger like you, sir.

> if not I'd
suggest you crawl back into your hole.

Arrogant twit.

Citations substantiating my claim to your violent crime rates have been posted here numerous times in recent months.

Both from the media, AND from your own government statistical data agencies. Look them up.

Our rates have been posted for years.

If you haven't read them do some research yourself right in this ng.

0:->


--
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin
.