Re: Guns possessed by citizens and the State


Charles L wrote:
> "Phil Smythe" <smytph@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:1125410946.789684.228170@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> > > So some thought that the 1996 laws didn't go far enough because they
> only
> > > related
> > > to longarms? Care to tell me how it was 'rectified' for small arms? By
> that
> > > I am
> > > assuming you're talking about handguns or pistols.
> >
> > It was "rectified" by expanding the legislation in 2002 to include
> > certain handguns that were not part of the original legislation.
> >
>
> Handguns, of any type, were never part of the 'original legislation' which
> is the 1996 legislation in each state I presume you're talking about. The
> changes that were made to handgun legislation in 2002 were a ban on
> handguns with a calibre higher .38 and a barrel length of less than 120mm.
> There were also some changes on the number of events that a pistol shooter
> had to attend at a club to maintain their licence and a longer probationary
> period before gaining a licence.

What did you think I meant when I wrote "expanding the legislation to
include" meant? As they were "never part of the original legislation",
which you point out, you are simply confirming what I wrote.

These were really cosmetic changes to
> handgun regulations that were already very tough. There was no evidence
> that handguns with a calibre greater than .38 were used any greater number
> in crimes than those those under .38. Same goes for handguns with a barrel
> length less than 120mm and those with a barrel length greater 120mm. And if
> anyone has any evidence to the contrary I'd like to see it (and not just a
> link please).
>
> > >
> > > > I'm not calling for the prohibition of private gun ownership in
> > > > Australia and if anybody is they could be counted on one hand.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Of those that have it as their goal and the honesty to admit it can be
> > > counted on one hand.
> >
> > Nice guess, but that's all it is.
> >
>
> I know who they are and that's enough for me.

Well why didn't you say so before? The fact that you know who they are,
but are a bit shy of naming them, is surely proof positive.


> > > Why do you have to wait 28 days from applying to purchase a firearm and
> > > finally taking position of it? Can you answer me that at least?
> >
> > I was hoping that your earlier mention of this 28 day thing was merely
> > rhetorical, obviously not.
> >
>
> Obviously. You're not telling me you're not aware of it are you?

What makes you ask that question? How does my viewing your question on
the 28 days business as rhetorical infer I don't know about the 28 day
business? (that's a real question, not a rhetorical one)

>
> > Let me ask you this. If there are conditions to be met when gaining
> > approval for a gun licence it is not reasonable for the authorities who
> > issue such licences to be given an opportunity to check the bona fides
> > of those applying? People state they meet various conditions to be
> > given a licence, these need to be verified. Presumably 28 days has been
> > determined to be a reasonable time. As I understand it a person should
> > expect a decision after 28 days and if not can ask why. Without a set
> > perod you'd have people ringing up every day to find out what's going
> > on. With a set period everyone, including the agency responsible, knows
> > what's expected.
> >
>
> It's not 28 days for a licence to be granted. It's 28 days, when one is
> already> issued with a licence, from when one applies for to when one is issued with
> a
> permit to purchase a firearm and take possession of it. This is the same
> whether taking possession of one's first or second, third, fourth
> etc firearm. Furthermore it doesn't take 28 days to check the bonafides of
> a licence applicant. About 5 minutes for an Australia wide criminal record
> check and to establish that one is a member of a shooting club or has a land
> owner's permission to shoot on their property.
> The 28 day wait has been labelled a "cooling off" period by the authorities.
> A cooling off period for what they don't exactly say.

Try this on;
'The Australasian Police Ministers' Council convened a special
meeting on 10 May 1996 and agreed to a national plan for the regulation
of firearms. The resolutions were refined at subsequent meetings and
formed the basis of the National Firearms Agreement. The Agreement
committed all States and Territories to a system of firearms licensing
and registration.

The terms of the Agreement included:
o requiring that permits be acquired for every new firearm
purchase, with the issue of a permit to be subject to a waiting period
of at least 28 days to enable appropriate checks to be made;'
http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/prod/parlment/publications.nsf/0/9C0252B88F63421ECA256ECF00073CB7

Funny, but that's basically what I said.

Sadly your claim of an Australia wide criminal record check taking 5
minutes is wildly innacurate. The problems of getting records are many.
Each state has it's own justice system, NOT linked to any other and NO
national and frequently updated database exists. Additionally there are
federal courts. Also gun licences can be applied at multiple sites
throughout each site and these would have only limited access to that
state's records let alone anybody else's. When you delve into including
whether a land owner's permission has been given and gun club
membership you are just making your 5 minute claim look even sillier.

> > I trust you not expecting that the mere handing over of a form
> > containing various claims would be sufficient for an immediate granting
> > of what is considered a very important licence. With 4 years between
> > Olympics a wait of 28 days should harm your medal prospects in one of
> > the shooting disciplines too much.
> >
>
> The checks that need to be performed include a criminal record check as well
> as checking whether any apprehended violence orders have been issued against
> the applicant, verification that one is a member of a shooting club or has
> permission
> to shoot on someone's property. This does not take 28 days.

Sorry, but it DOES, whether you like it or not. You clearly have no
idea how the bureaucracy works.

.

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