Re: Gun Crime In Australia


Charles L wrote:
> "Phil Smythe" <smytph@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:1124192262.842211.64190@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> > SMITH29 wrote:
> > > Don't let anyone kid you into believing a disarmed society
> > > is a kind society.
> > >
> > > http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/shared/readmore.asp?sNav=nr&id=570
> > > http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15304
> > > http://www.tsra.com/Lott109.htm
> > > http://johnrlott.tripod.com/op-eds/IBDGunConFailure.html
> > > http://guncontrolaustralia.org/default.htm
> > > http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=8073
> > > http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp
> > > THese are just a few of the sites you can visit and
> > > formulate your own opinion on whether you should give your
> > > guns to the police for disposal or use them to protect your
> > > family and yourself.
> > > Personally I sleep secure with my 29-2 and the Beretta auto
> > > 12 stuffed with zero buck close at hand. If they are still
> > > in the house after the alarm goes off I figure it's pretty
> > > much open season.
> >
> > There's one word to describe "Gun Crime In Australia" - DOWN. Maybe two
> > words would be better, DOWN SIGNIFICANTLY.
> >
>
> What measure or percentage do you consider to be significant?

The obvious one Charles given the subject header, and the one I
detailed directly below, the total usage of guns in crime - DOWN by
23.5%. To get some perspective on the significance of this imagine your
income being cut by 23.5%.

>
> > In 1996, the year that stricter gun laws were introduced, there were
> > 2,490 violent crimes recorded where firearms were used, by 2003 this
> > figure had fallen to 1,905.
> >
>
> There were 1,905 crimes recorded where firearms where used in 2003 yet in
> 1996 the year the laws took effect it was 2,490. How does one account for
> this? Surely the laws in 1996 should have had some effect. Perhaps in 1996
> all the criminals hadn't yet handed in the guns to the 'buyback' and still
> had a few more crimes to commit with them.

The buyback began in late 1996 and ran through into 1997. Believe it or
not these things do not have an instantaneous effect, eg 'gun crime
drops immediately the day the buyback begins'.

>
> >
> http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/9cfdfe271b7930bbca2568b5007b8618/84b8736e23196511ca2570280078b4f6!OpenDocument
> >
> > As for your list of links they've all of these have been trotted out
> > before and are a mixture of lies, distortion and selective reporting.
> >
>
> Of course that's something that anti-gun activists and the media are NEVER
> guilty of.

Does that alter the fact that the links are still a mixture of lies,
distortion and selective reporting? No, I didn't think so.

You should also be wary of mindlessly resubmitting someone else's
claims. A year or so back in tpg Mort Davis claimed that Canada had a
higher murder rate than the US. When I queried him on his source for
this startling piece of info he claimed it was from the US Dept of
Justice. After checking this I informed him that there was no such
claim but he insisted it came from the DOJ. After poking and prodding
him a few more time he eventually admitted that he had stolen that
claim off another poster. That he'd pinched it off another person
seemed, in his mind, to absolve him of any responsibility for its
accuracy.

>
> > A good example is the first link, the Fraser Institute report. It
> > begins its commentary on Australia with "The Australian government made
> > sweeping changes to the firearms legislation in 1997. However, the
> > total homicide rate, after having remained basically flat from 1995 to
> > 2001, has now begun climbing again."
> >
> > Problem is that "the Australian government made sweeping changes to the
> > firearms legislation" in 1996, not 1997. Could just be a typo I
> > suppose. Pretty sloppy, but possible.
> >
> > However when they say the homicide rate was flat from 1995 to 2001 has
> > now begun climbing that is pretty definitive, 2002 must be higher than
> > 2001 or else it isn't "climbing". The FACTS are that the homicide rate
> > in 2001 was 5.5 per 100,000 but in 2002 it was 5.0. It was NOT climbing
> > but falling. In fact it fell again in 2003 to 4.8 and fel yet again in
> > 2004 to 3.9.
> >
>
> Whoa! Are we talking about homicide rates in general or homicide rates with
> firearms?

Reading glasses fogged up Charlie? The Fraser Institute report stated
"the total homicide rate" and I gave "the homicide rate" and guess
what, I meant the homicide rate. I gave you the link to the actual
numbers so if you were in any doubt all you had to do was check the
numbers. And if you had you could have confirmed that my numbers were
the "homicide rate" and NOT the "homicide rate with firearms".

ps the word "total" as used by the Fraser Institute is redundant. The
"population of Australia" and the "total population of Australia" are
the same thing, same with the "total homicide rate" and "homicide
rate".

I don't think I've conversed with you before so I'd better state
something up front. When I write something it means exactly what I
write. There is a vast number of posters in TPG whose entire modus
operandi is to challenge you on something you did'nt write whilst
simultaneously claiming that's what you did write. After copious
responses that you didn't write that which has been attributed to you
the eventual admission is that you "implied it" or it was the "logical
extension" of what you wrote. I'm hoping you will not join this
disreputable bunch.

.

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