Re: Humanism in 2006

Joseph H wrote:

> > So it is not two kinds of humanism, it is the same humanism in
> > different historical times. The most basic idea in humanism is to use
> > the human as the base for our thinking, not the God.

> Yes, but using the human as the base for our thinking is also limiting.
> It ignores the wider context - the planet, the cosmos, even existence

We _are_ humans. We represent human interests in our thinking, we try
to make life better for humans.

> itself. Just to ask how we may / should live is not enough - though it
> is certainly an improvement on past models. We are not all there is. Do
> we have a role in relation to the planet? Do we have a role, or can we

We can have ideas about higher than human goals, we may think we
represent life, and consider what we do from such a standpoint too, but
we can never forget that the most important task for us is the human
point of view.

Remember that non-human, or superhuman ideas has caused a lot of
trouble for us in the past, especially if we start seeing non-human
interests as more important than human interests.

There are green environmentalists today who think it would be better
for the nature, the environment, if all humans died and mankind was
removed from this universe.
Some of them may even start to kill humans to achieve that goal.

That shows how weird and dangerous ideas we can come to when we forget
the basic human perspective.

> adopt a role, in relation to life? We are the only known creatures who
> can ask these questions. Does the fact that this is the case impose an
> obligation on us to investigate whether we might adopt a role in
> relation to life in general?

We _are_ the only kind of life we know about. The biosphere of earth is
the only place so far where we have found life.
Life is a chemical process, there is nothing sacred in "life" in
itself, unless you think in misunderstood religious ways.

Religious people worship "life", but they are not really talking about
biological life, they talk about spiritual life, created mind, the holy
spirit.
Some religious people do not understand that double talk, so they start
worshipping the chemical reactions, biological life. A view based on a
literal interpretation of symbolism, a very common side effect in a
religion based society.

> Clearly, humanists are wary of such
> questions. They have cast off a panoply of superstition and do not now
> want to don another mantle.

Exactly.

> But they should be equally wary of
> isolating themselves from the rest of life.

"the rest of life"? You mean the people who are still dominated by
religious views, original religious views or misunderstandings?

Well, you are of course right in one way, we cannot go so fast that a
lot of people get angry at us, for trying to solve their problems too
quickly :-)

That's why you will not find too advanced and clearly expressed
humanist ideas in the organised humanist movement.

> They might also wonder
> whether moral or ideological codes focusing on human beings alone
> aren't inherently depleted, offfering us no vision other than our own
> (self-)satisfaction. Finally, they might wonder whether any such
> self-focusing ideologies will ever have the emotional - and
> intellectual - range to supplant the powerful ideologies of the past.
> Certainly, there is a move away from religion - but as someone else in
> this thread said it is towards secularism alone and not towards any
> form of humanism.

Humanism _is_ secularism. Do you want us to explain it slower, and in
less explicit ways? Okay, you can easily find such humanists too. But I
don't beat around the bush, I represent radical humanism. We cannot
afford to sacrifice a couple of generations of people just because the
people who rule the social world in many places on earth get a headache
from understanding things too quickly.

> Is secularism better than religion? Yes, I say - but
> it can lead to an emptiness and,

We should be very nice towards each other, instead of "helping" each
other become tough and manly. "Emptyness" in the emotional meaning
comes from a tough social climate, created by creationists. We
humanists should invite people to come and feel good together. Help the
victims of mobbing.

> through its indiference, it allows the zealots to beaver away.

They are split up into millions of sects, and fight each other more
than they fight science, critical thinking, democracy and a modern
society.

Their own leaders are often secretly progressive like humanists.
Don't worry, it is all under control.

The question now is: How can we make the progress faster?
Is there a way to explain this to more people?
Can explanations replace violence and human suffering?

We, who discuss in the philosophical newsgroups and web forums, are
developing better ways to explain and spread more modern views.

And we have a lot of hardheaded fools here to test our explanation
models on :-)


--
Roger J.

.

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