Re: Humanism in 2006


Roger Johansson wrote:
> Joseph H wrote:
>
> > > > Next Question: Why will humanism never really impact upon that same
> > > > stupid public world?
>
> > > Humanism moves slowly ahead, we see a lot of humanist progress over the
> > > last 500 years.
>
> > That's kinda slow, isn't it. In the meantime the world has moved on.
>
> Humanism became an influential idea around the year 1500, and it set
> off a tendency towards secularisation and rational thought.
>
> This resulted in a loss of worldly power for the pope, reformation of
> the church, the start of protestantism, which were kind of halfway
> secularizations within the churches.
> Religion was trying to adapt to the new humanist ideas to avoid being
> abolished completely.
>
> Humanism started a development of science and technology, and
> democratization, equality between the sexes, development of modern
> constitutions, like the american constitution.
>
> Our present world of thought includes elements like democracy, human
> rights, individual choice, equality, and all those ideas are part of
> humanism.
>
> Without the humanists around the year 1500 and the following age of
> enlightenment which spread the humanist ideas we would still live in a
> theocratic world, ruled by the pope. We would have no science and no
> technology, we would be forced to learn bible verses by heart in the
> schools. There would be no cars, no computers, no bicycles.
>
> > Your solutions aren't keeping up with the time.
>
> Humanism has created the time we live in.
> And is still rebuilding the world from a religion based system into a
> rational and critical thought based world.
>
> We are still in the middle of a transformation from a religious society
> to a humanist society. There is a lot more to do before we are free
> from detrimental old traditions and religious views.
>
> > > We have a history, we know what stages mankind has gone through, we are
> > > happy to be the last of one paradigm and the first of a new paradigm.
>
> > But, really, Roger, our "history" hardly impacts on humanism. It's an
>
> It is humanism which is influencing history. Not the other way around.
>
> > > If we abolish the creationist system there is no need for a replacement
> > > of that system.
> > > There is no real need for a belief in gods or whatever. Only very
> > > excited brains, full of the holy spirit, need something to believe in,
> > > something to cling to.
>
> > But you believe in something, Rog, don't you? It's not a question of
> > clinging on; it's a question of drawing support and sustenance from.
>
> I don't believe in anything which cannot be explained by science and
> rational thought.

I'm just wondering if you aren't conflating two kinds, or brands, of
humanism - the one we know today and which you clearly support and the
general drift away from a purely religious mode of thought which
occurred in the late Middle Ages. These latter gentlemen - artists,
writers and the like - were most definitely not humanists in your sense
of the word.
But I take your general point about the shift in values during the last
half-Millennium. I think, however, that other factors played a
prominent role - trade, travel, disease, the fall of Constantinople,
the Reformation etc.
>
>
> --
> Roger J.

.

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