Re: Dworetsky's Redemption (Part 2): Did he produce evidence that

On May 17, 2:01 pm, Ray Martinez <pyramid...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On May 16, 9:31 pm, "Steven J." <sjt1...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On May 16, 2:37 pm, Ray Martinez <pyramid...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:> On May 15, 1:17 pm, "Steven J." <sjt1...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

-- [snip]


Whether we ought to seek a
supernatural explanation for that uniqueness is less obvious.  

Suddenly, this comment does not follow.

My point is that "we don't know how this situation could have come
about" means simply that we don't know its cause, not that only a
supernatural cause is possible. "I can't explain this, therefore, it
must be a miracle" is not a valid inference.

-- [snip]

Again, your conclusion doesn't follow. If we are geocentered, and if
every other solar system is heliocentered, then the Doctrine of
Special Creation is supported in spectacular fashion.

In the Tychonian model, "every other solar system is heliocentered" in
the sense that all other stars and galaxies orbit the sun, which
orbits the Earth. Or possibly, only the planets in our own solar
system orbit the sun, which orbits the Earth, while other stars orbit
the Earth directly. I'm not quite clear on this. But Tony is
certainly not proposing that the rest of the universe behaves as
mainstream cosmology says, and that we are unique only because in this
one star system, the star orbits one of its planets. He holds that
the Earth is the center of the entire visible universe and everything
orbits it, or orbits something that orbits the Earth.

If you want massive evidence supporting the existence of the Genesis
Creator then study the Great Pyramid and Sphinx. David Davidson was a
lawyer who went to Egypt for the sole purpose of debunking the claims
of Pyramidology. He ended up writing one of the most influential books
in favor of Pyramidology. The Great Pyramid exhibits the major claims
of the Bible in unalterable stone, constructed thousands of years
before the Pentateuch was written. Anyone who looks into the matter
for themself, with an open mind, becomes convinced fairly quickly.
That's why my email address is a unique coinage "pyramidial." The
evidence for God (Theism) is jaw-dropping. Darwinism is as false as a
four dollar bill.

Pyramidology has all the rigor and respectability of astrology or
hepatoscopy, albeit without the convenience of the former or the
messiness of the latter.

-- [snip]

Joshua 10 states that "So the sun stood still, and the moon stopped,"
in response to Joshua's request, with no hint that it was actually the
Earth's rotation that halted.  

In other words, because God didn't interject and correct Joshua's
cosmology, the Bible supports geocentrism? Is that your argument? God
understood what Joshua was saying: he was saying, 'let the daylight
remain so I can kill your enemies (unrepentant idol worshippers).' If
nightfall had come then the Amorites would have escaped.

I'm not talking, here, about Joshua's cosmology, but the cosmology of
the author of the book of Joshua. It's supposed to be an inspired,
inerrant text: it might record the erroneous things people say, but
should not include errors itself. Yet the author's cosmology is the
same as Joshua's -- and it isn't the same as yours.

Stephen Hawking, in his latest book, wonders aloud how the Earth came
to a screeching halt without the seven seas flying off the face of the
globe? It seems to me that even he understands that the miracle claim
is in behalf of the Earth, and not the Sun.

He's noting that most modern fundamentalists accept that the Earth is
a globe and that it orbits the sun, so he's asking how these modern
fundamentalists justify their modern beliefs. I note that Martin
Luther cited this passage as evidence that, in fact, the miracle
affecting the orbiting sun, not the unmoving Earth. Are you saying
that Stephen Hawking is a better scriptural exegete than Martin Luther
was?

And there are several references in the
Psalms to the unmoving Earth.  

Out of context.

But perhaps the most striking hint of
geocentricity in the Bible comes in Genesis 1, in which  the Earth
(including continents, seas, and plants) is created before the sun
is.  

Chapter 1 cosmology is complex and complicated. I remember watching
the construction of a major freeway interchange here in Los Angeles.
Progess, everytime we passed by, week after week, could be seen. What
was most perplexing was the fact that they had a road going up, then
it just stopped. It looked as if they made an embarrassing mistake. We
could not make any sense of a road rising 50 to 60 feet in the air
then ending abruptly? One day it then became apparent that "the road"
was a mass transit station stop, intentionally situated next to the
road that continued on.

I see no hint of geocentrism in the uncompleted cosmology of whatever
verse you are alluding to in Genesis 1.

You must be working very hard to cover your eyes, then. As I noted,
the text doesn't have, e.g. whales created before the ocean (though
God could have miraculously sustained them until He got around to
creating a natural environment that could support them), or land
animals before creating dry land and plants. For the most part, it
seems to have God laying foundations before building on them -- except
on this one point. From a heliocentric standpoint, creating the Earth
before the sun is like building a house and only later getting around
to digging the foundation. An omnipotent God could do that, of
course, but the overall logic of the creation account suggests that He
wasn't trying to do things in an illogical order. Creating the sun
after the Earth is logical, if the sun is indeed just a light attached
to the dome of the sky, set over the flat disk of the Earth.

-- Steven J.

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