Re: SHould we stop picking on Ray about his paper?

On Dec 12, 11:01 am, Ron O <rokim...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
On Dec 12, 9:05 am, Frank J <f...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:





On Dec 11, 6:58 pm, r norman <r_s_nor...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Sat, 11 Dec 2010 13:25:30 -0700, Bob Casanova <nos...@xxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On Fri, 10 Dec 2010 17:07:58 -0800, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by Earle Jones
<earle.jo...@xxxxxxxxxxx>:

In article <sua5g69mfejm7df73si5bo4re5s5n6c...@xxxxxxx>,
Bob Casanova <nos...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Thu, 9 Dec 2010 19:40:12 -0800 (PST), the following
appeared in talk.origins, posted by Kalkidas
<cvde...@xxxxxxxxx>:

On Dec 9, 7:08 am, John Vreeland <john.vreel...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
SHould we stop picking on Ray about his paper?

I think Ray is sincere when he says that he has some idea he is
working on and that he feels foolish for ever having declared a
deadline. You have to admit, trying to accomplish what he claims is
going to be very, very difficult for anybody, so unless he brings it
up himself to taunt us with promises of the devastating arguments in
his forthcoming opus I am inclined to let it

Yes, people should stop picking on Ray, especially those who style
themselves as "scientists", since bullying is not part of any
legitimate scientific method.

Rebutting demonstrably-false claims made by people who act
as Ray does is not bullying. If he wants to be treated
politely he knows how to make that happen. Don't hold your
breath.

*
And remember Price's Law:

"When a proposition is ludicrous enough, we lend it undeserved
credibility when we respond too politely."

--Robert M. Price

Point. But the initial response should be polite, usually a
request for amplification and/or clarification. *Then* all
bets are off, depending on the reply.

When Ray makes specific comments about his paper or his theory, then
piling on with questions demanding specifics and then criticizing
those specifics as may be appropriate is quite justified.

However when Ray happen to make some unrelated comment in a totally
different thread and people pile in with dozens of demands about
publication dates and such, it just causes real annoyance to anyone
else why might actually be interested in that thread. That, in my
opinion, is where the "picking on" crosses the line into bullying.

Price's comment must be evaluated on a cost-benefit analysis. Does
the piling on of comments have any adverse effect on Ray and his
behavior? Historically the record shows it has absolute no effect:
benefit = zero. Does the piling on of comments have any adverse
effect on other readers not at all interested in Ray or his theories?
I claim some effect: cost > zero. Result: Cost/Benefit ratio
extremely unfavorable.

OK, the piling on may produce some sadistic pleasure in those doing
the piling, but for the sake of the rest of us, could you please hold
it down a bit?

I confess to piling on Ray more than I ought to, but it's easy do
because he's here, and he replies a lot (though still evades key
questions). Most of the more interesting evolution deniers (Sean, Zoe,
etc.) have given up or lost interest. As I recommended to Devil's
Advocaat, I think we should divert some of our energies from Ray to
the DI. We can't do it on their sites because they delete inconvenient
posts (I wonder why), but we can challenge them here. They're unlikely
to show up here to "debate" (I wonder why) but we can check their
sites to see if they "reply" there. Given that extended "debates" are
unlikely, the "cost" will be minimal. And if it alerts a few lurkers
of their antics, the benefit could be good.-

Apparently the Discovery Institute sometimes responds to threads on
Panda's thumb at some of their sites like Evolutionnews.

http://www.evolutionnews.org/

They can't even tell the truth in the titles of their junk.  It should
be creationistpropaganda.org.

They do not participate at Panda's, but they will put up their spin on
things sometimes.

I doubt that they would participate at TO.  I don't think that they
have ever commented on any TO thread.

Behe actually started this thread way back in 1994:

http://groups.google.com/group/talk.origins/msg/c287143596f3e154?hl=en

Was he looking for material to spin in the book he was planning???

The replies by Tim Ikeda were interesting. Wonder if he knew what
Behe was up to?

Also, Phillip Johnson was quite active here in 1993. Lot's of
interesting posts from that era.

 Beats me what they choose to
respond to.  Mostly individual blogs.  TO is too much of a hodge podge
of different topics all going on at once.  We never concentrate on a
single topic at anyone time, so my guess is that it isn't worth their
time unless you started putting up things on the TO web site
specifically about the current Discovery Institute scams.

We might work it like a TO FAQ submission where someone puts up an
essay, people take it apart and put it back together, and if enough
people think that it should go in under the heading Intelligent Design
Scam (just kidding for those that can't take a joke).  The Discovery
Institute may respond to the essays, and someone could work up a
response to the ID perp's response, let it get kicked around on TO and
post it on the TO web site.  Cross links to their responses etc.

It would likely be more interesting than what most of us are doing now
since anyone with more than half a brain doesn't bother to post in
support of the creationist anti-evolution movement.  Things are at a
pretty low point for the creationists because most of them have gotten
enough of a clue to understand how bogus the junk really is and was.

Ron Okimoto- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


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