Re: question for evolution

All-seeing-I schreef:
On Dec 1, 9:51 am, Erwin Moller
<Since_humans_read_this_I_am_spammed_too_m...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
All-seeing-I schreef:

On Dec 1, 6:34 am, Garamond Lethe <cartographi...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
On 2009-12-01, George <gburk...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
To be honest with all I am a Bible Believing Creationist Christian
that accepts Jesus Christ by faith and the Revelation of Scriptures.
Thanks for that bit of honesty. I think you'll find that there are
many Bible Believing Theistic Evolutionist Christians who accept Jesus
Christ by faith and the Revelation of Scriptures, but who also think
that God is smart enough to both communicate using metaphors and to
let evolution to most of the heavy lifting.
heh... now God cannot lift heavy objects? Hahahaha!! You evo-freaks
crack me up.
.....
He gave an example of how God can coexist with evolution in the mindset
of certain religious people.
Is that really so hard to understand for you Madman?



Exactly how can one be a "Bible believer" and an "Evolutionist" at the
same time?
Personally I agree with you.
Religion is based on nothing and evolution is based on observations/reality.
In my opinion every sane person should be agnostic or atheist.

But many religious people choose to believe in God and accept evolution.
That is a fact.
It may disturb you, but that doesn't change it.



You can't. So stop fooling to yourself. Jesus was clear when he
plainly said that God "created them, male and female". You DID just
say that you accepted Jesus as Christ and the Revelation of Scriptures
on faith, right?
No, he didn't write that.He wrote: "I think you'll find that there are

many Bible Believing Theistic Evolutionist Christians who accept Jesus
Christ by faith and the Revelation of Scriptures, but who also think
that God is smart enough to both communicate using metaphors and to
let evolution to most of the heavy lifting."

So that is "many Bible Believing Theistic Evolutionist Christians", not
Garamond himself.

So to who are you talking? George or Garamond?





So where is your faith in Jesus and in the revelation
of the scriptures? You either believe the words of the original
Christian, Jesus of Nazareth, or you don't. Here is what he said:
Matt.19:4
"(Jesus) "he (god) which made them at the beginning made them male and
female,"
Then the torah says "God Created" man in his garden.
Genesis 1:27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He
created him; male and female He created them.
BUT. Evolution says "Man evolved" from an ape which in turn evolved
from a single common ancestor. These two ideas are diametrically
opposed to each other. If you are a "theist" then you believe the
bible version. If you are an evolutionist you do not. But to believe
in BOTH at the same time is being "double minded". The bible addresses
when people are being double minded as well:
http://bible.cc/james/1-8.htm
New International Version (�1984)
"he is a double-minded man, unstable in all he does"
Maybe, my dear Madman, some people don't take the bible litteraly, like
you do.

I can't help to think that some of the original authors of the
biblestories would laugh loud and hard if they heard their stories were
intrepreted litterally a few thousand years later.

Hi Madman,

Well, Redfrogg and bpuharic gave you already quite accurate response.
But I'll waste some bandwidth on it too. ;-)



You can't be this dumb.

Yes we can!


I will assume you are simply being combative
and argumentative Moller. Which is nothing new.


Stange approach, but go ahead.
I am a bit surprised you claim to have never heard of Christians that take evolution as a fact.
They are all around you, milions of them, they signed petitions on the net, they answered in polls.
How could you have missed that?

But hell, go ahead, call me combative and argumentative.
I can only call you deaf and blind in return.



The problem is this. The claim was made (by someone) to accept Jesus
Christ and the Revelation of Scriptures on faith. Faith is the essence
of Christianity.

uhuh....



But you cannot accept the revelations in the scriptures AND accept
evolution as an explanation for man's origins at the same time no
matter how much you rationalize it. They are two completely different
(and opposing) explanations.

Correct. *If* you read the scriptures literally.
Many religious people are a little smarter than that, luckily.
One the very stupid think that the bible contains the literal word of god.

--> WHY IS IT EXTREMELY STUPID TO READ IT LITERALLY? <--
Please help me understand this part, Madman.

I always wondered: if god has something worthwhile to tell us all, and he wanted us all to know about it, why didn't he pick a more convincing method than claiming some old books contain his word?
I can think of many many more convincing methods!
What about you?

And when we are at that: Why doesn't god proof himself in a very clear and convincing way to all sceptics?
Why not?
Why only very indirect ways that can also be explained by natural processes?
Why?

Does God not exist?
Does God not care for his creation, to leave us all doubting his existance?
Is god maybe just plain evil? Placing/planting all kinds of scientific clues which make scientists think otherwise, eg age of the universe/Earth/evolution/etc etc?
God: "Let's place a nice fosillized skeleton here, and there, and there one, just in the right layers! Hahaha, that will keep them suckers busy for some time to figure out. ;-) Hahaha!"

Is your god like that?



Now, If you already accept the Revelation of Scriptures on faith then
there is no need to accept a second version and then try to
rationalize the two of them into a single story.

Because one of the revelations in the scripture says: "In the
Beginning God created".

It does not say "In the Beginning God created with evolution".

The bible clearly explains "how" God created man already.

Not at all.
I am still sure the authors of these stories would laugh a lot if they heard about you (in heaven). ;-)


But we can go on with this forever, the problem, your problem, stay this:
Scientific method explains a lot.
Religion fails to explain a lot and mostly doesn't even try.

Science has reality on its side, you only have faith.

And faith in what?
Faith in one of the ten thousands different religions that have been developed? The Only Right One?

Don't you have any talent to put things into perspective?
Don't you see all these religions claim to hold the absolute unquestionable truth?
How can they all be true?

--> Put your dogmas into perspective and there is hope for you yet.

Haven't you ever, seriously, wondered about this all?

I can tell you I seriously considered a creator (and dismissed the idea). But I don't understand how a remotely inteligent person can stick to such dogmas like you do.

Madman: "Bible contains only truth."
Erwin: "How do you know for sure?"
Madman: "Bible says so."

You always try to attack theory of evolution (and always fail misserably).
Why don't you put something different up that is actually built on evidence and a logical, coherent framework of ideas?

Nah, we all know you don't.
You simply shout again and again God-did-it and shut your brains down after that. You ask no futher questions.
You actually don't give a damn about all the wonders surrounding you and how they might come into existance or how they work.
Blinded by faith you miss out big time.

So where is your alternative explanation, Mr Madman?



So you would have to remove "how" God created man as explained in the
bible and then replace that explanation with evolutions version. Which
would mean you did not take the revelations in the bible on "faith".

No sane person should take any 'revelations' on faith, no matter who claims them to be true.
That attitude leads to very dangerous situations where leaders tell you what to do. Better put some faith in them...
Don't go there.
Insist on using your own judgement and stay in touch with reality.
Faith.... bah.




You cannot be a true Christian with out having faith in the word of
God.


I think that might be correct.
But I couldn't be sure since I am not an Christian, nor do I care too much for ideas build on dogmas and faith that are wrong on many points.



And yes. This also makes me unqualified to be a Christian.


So what are you then, besides the most effective troll I ever met in all my years on usenet (for which I complement you)?
I do know for sure you are a creationist.
What kind? (Pick one of the thousands, or start a new one.)



Sorry. That is just how simple it really is.


Nope.
What you say sounds simple, but it actually a incoherent crafted worldview build on fantasies and wishful thinking. One that fall apart on first filosophical inspection.

Regards,
Erwin Moller


--
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult."
-- C.A.R. Hoare

.

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