Re: News: Origin of Life: Generating RNA Molecules in Water
- From: Ye Old One <usenet@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 01 Dec 2009 15:43:02 GMT
On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 06:22:00 -0800 (PST), All-Seeing-I
<allseeingi@xxxxxxx> enriched this group when s/he wrote:
On Nov 30, 1:32 am, Sapient Fridge <use_reply_addr...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
In message
<1dee4ecb-99c9-456e-9477-d8eb62fc6...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
All-Seeing-I <allseei...@xxxxxxx> writes
On Nov 29, 5:01 pm, Sapient Fridge <use_reply_addr...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
In message
<66e3b24a-8c83-425e-9936-0e77becc0...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
All-Seeing-I <allseei...@xxxxxxx> writes
On Nov 29, 2:46 pm, macaddic...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (macaddicted)
wrote:
<http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091120124829.htm>
ScienceDaily (Nov. 25, 2009) ? A key question in the origin of
biological molecules like RNA and DNA is how they first came together
billions of years ago from simple precursors. Researchers in Italy have
reconstructed one of the earliest evolutionary steps yet: generating
long chains of RNA from individual subunits using nothing but warm
water.
Many researchers believe that RNA was one of the first biological
molecules present, before DNA and proteins; however, there has been
little success in recreating the formation on RNA from simple
"prebiotic" molecules that likely were present on primordial earth
billions of years ago.
Now, Ernesto Di Mauro and colleagues found that ancient molecules called
cyclic nucleotides can merge together in water and form polymers over
100 nucleotides long in water ranging from 40-90 °C -- similar to water
temperatures on ancient Earth.
Cyclic nucleotides like cyclic-AMP are very similar to the nucleotides
that make up individual pieces of DNA or RNA (A, T, G and C), except
that they form an extra chemical bond and assume a ring-shaped
structure. That extra bond makes cyclic nucleotides more reactive,
though, and thus they were able to join together into long chains at a
decent rate (about 200 hours to reach 100 nucleotides long).
This finding is exciting as cyclic nucleotides themselves can be easily
formed from simple chemicals like formamide, thus making them plausible
prebiotic compounds present during primordial times. Thus, this study
may be revealing how the first bits of genetic information were created.
Story Source:
Adapted from materials provided by American Society for Biochemistry and
Molecular Biology, via EurekAlert!, a service of AAAS.
Journal Reference:
1. Giovanna Costanzo, Samanta Pino, Fabiana Ciciriello and
Ernesto Di Mauro. Generation of long RNA chains in water. Journal of
Biological Chemistry, 2009; DOI: 10.1074/jbc.M109.041905
HINT:
Growing A Chia Pet Does NOT Qualify As Real Life
http://www.buying-chia-pets.com/chia-pet.html
What is your definition of "Real Life"?
Anything that is smart enough to run from danger should qualify.
A mosquito will indeed fly off when you are about to swat it on your
arm. But, bacteria will stay where it is,even when faced with the
onslaught of an antibiotic attack. But even this could be questioned.
Because bacteria will fight to quickly mutate in an effort to stay
alive, thereby avoiding the danger.
That may well be true:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adaptive_mutation
I was going to ask about plants but since you include mutation as a form
of "running from danger" that encompasses all known life.
The ability to sense and then avoid danger is a common design trait
that all life possesses. It should be more then enough to suggest
there could be a designer to any reasonable person.
What is yours?
Anything that replicates imperfectly and thus can adapt to it's
environment.
Interestingly since you included the mutation rate of bacteria as a
variety of "running from danger" it means the definitions aren't too far
apart. Both definitions include viruses (who have the highest mutation
rates).
My definition extends into chemistry though, and I don't think you
envisage yours doing so - which is probably why we read different
implications into the original article.
--
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- Show quoted text -
IMO the real question should answer if each category of life stays
within some kind of limits or boundaries. Are their any unknown laws
that we have not discovered yet that governs variation for species
survival on a dynamic earth.
There is no evidence for unknown laws working. The ToE explains all we
see.
Such as:
Will an evergreen always give rise to an evergreen or a variation of
an evergreen but, will not give rise to anything beyond that. If it
will go beyond that, then how far.
The group of plants we call "evergreens" were not always so, they
evolved. Nobody knows or can predict what some of them may evolve
into.
Or. Is there no limit at all. Can
any limits that may exist be imposed only under specific conditions;
Or would certain conditions trigger a total speciation divergence.
Viruses have mutated for millions of years. But has a virus ever
mutated to the point that it has become something else that is clearly
no longer a virus.
Sure, We can infer and make assumptions that one species can evolve
into another totally new species; But we have never observed such a
process taking place from start to finish.
Yes we have.
If we knew conclusively if there was or was not boundaries to the
evolutionary process, then we could safely assume one way or the other
just how far evolution would or even could go in relation to species
divergence.
Knowing this would strongly indicate if one population of species
could give rise to another or not.
But as it appears now, we do not know if there are any chemical/
biological or genetic boundaries involving divergence.
We find none.
However, we do have a biblical explanation that says life was to
populate the earth "each after his own kind". Which suggests there may
boundaries within each "kind" of life.
Fairy stories.
While the bible does not specifically state what is a "kind". It does
elude to groups of "kinds" such as sea, land and air creatures being
created separately. Then it shows a further division between things
like seed bearing and non seed bearing plants. This does not give us
much to go on, but regardless of that, we can get the idea that there
may be boundaries to each "kind" of life from Genesis Chapter 1.
Fairy stories.
If there are boundaries to life then species divergence, from one
species to the next is impossible.
If there are no boundaries then the likelihood of one species giving
rise to one or more others may be good based on the evidences we
already have.
Evidence you always ignore.
--
Bob.
When D-G made Madman out of clay he forgot to magic the brain. I think
that explains everything.
.
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