Re: Is the Universe Fine Tuned for Life? 2

On Nov 16, 3:45 am, spintronic <spintro...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 16 Nov, 00:38, John Harshman <jharsh...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:



Steven L. wrote:
John Harshman wrote:
spintronic wrote:
DA posted this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCKqj-2JXZg

And asked the above question.

Since the video was BS, and he used the mass of the earth instead of
the surface area we live on, and other gibberish innacuracies.

Here is food for thought.

In the video he claims that:

99.9999999999999999999999999999999999927%

of the universe cannot support human life.
****************************************************

So by his logic.

The surface area of this planet we call home is
so finely tuned to support human life, that the total
percentage of places in the entire universe that can
do the job are;

0.0000000000000000000000000000000000073%

And we happen to live on the only one (According to his math).

I'd say that's damn good fine tuning, for the little planet we call
home.

So you reject the claim that the universe is fine tuned, and retreat
to the claim that certain portions of the surface of the earth are
fine tuned.

Are you surprised that we live in a place we find habitable?

I'm surprised we haven't found any others.

Of course life forms elsewhere may not be based on DNA.  But life as we
know it is based on carbon biochemistry.  And carbon and hydrogen aren't
rare elements in this Universe.

.

It's no longer tenable to say "We just haven't been looking for
extraterrestrial life hard enough."  We're looking--hundreds of
extrasolar planets, all the SETI searches--`but we're not finding.  Even
though meteorites contain amino acids--but no fossils.

.

Not quite right. If we're looking for earthlike planets, the searches so
far are not capable of detecting them.

Not very bright are you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gliese_581_e

From the cited site:

"At a minimum of 1.9 Earth masses, it is the smallest extrasolar
planet discovered around a normal star, and the closest in mass to
Earth. At an orbital distance of just 0.03 AU from its parent star,
however, it is outside the habitable zone. It is unlikely to possess
an atmosphere due to its high temperature and strong radiation from
the star. From this planet, the star would appear more than 10 times
larger in the sky than the Sun does appear from Earth and shine about
4 times brighter at a magnitude of about -27. Although scientists
think it probably has a rocky surface similar to Earth, it is also
likely to experience intense tidal heating similar to (and likely more
intense than) that affecting Jupiter's moon Io. Gliese 581e completes
an orbit of its sun in approximately 3.15 days."

What "Earth" are you refering to, if you think Gliese 581 e is "Earth-
like"?

At present, we cannot detect (but soon should be) a planet, like
Earth, that orbits within the Goldilocks Zone, around a star similar
to the sun, about the same size as Earth.

Gliese 581 e doesn't fit the bill for several reasons.


And SETI doesn't search for life.

Like I said, not very bright.

Specifically, SETI is looking for signs of *intelligent* life. There
could be a planet teaming with life, but if there is no intelligent
life present that sued, or uses, radio waves as a means of
communications, SETI would not be abe to detect it. If anyone is "not
too bright", it's you.



SETI would not, in fact, be capable of finding earth.

SETI can't find earth?

That's funny. All they have to do is look down.

Another point flies over your head. Being obtuse as a means of
disguising your stupidity is amusing.



It's still possible that life is
extremely common in the universe (or at least that most earthlike
planets have it). We don't have much data.

Hmm, let me do the math.

We have 9 planets here, 405 on the exoplanet database.

20 less than 10 earth mass's

We have 4 *DEFINITE* earth size planet within 21 light years,

8 are considered "low mass" The extra 4 being about 5-8 earth mass's.

Many more within 50 Light years (But we'll ignore them)

4 planets found in 1 solar system alone, 2 of them low mass 1 in the
habital zone.

And seti has searched upto 200 light years.

Average volume per habital size planet's = 4849.048261

**********************************************************************

Giving an average of ******6,910***** habitable mass planet's

                    ***WITHIN*** seti's range.

*********************************************************************
Now consider this.

That 6,910 habitable size planets, is averaged based on the *KNOWN*
planets we have so far.

I am sure there are thousand's more within SETI's 200 light year
distance covered so far.

And I'm even more sure that random signals can be picked up from much
farther away than 200 light years.

(That's just what they have *definitely* covered)

Your point? That we haven't found evidence of *intelligent* life
yet? So what?


I'm uncomfortable with the notion of life on Earth being a
quintillion-to-one cosmic freak accident in the Universe.  You should be
too, given the prevalence of carbon, hydrogen, and such elements in the
rest of the Universe.

I agree. But we have no data suggesting that life is rare.

Apparently we do.

So much for a "Universe finely tuned for life" then.

Of course, that leaves you the "Therefore, life must have been created
by a god thingy" argument from ignorance and incredulity.

Boikat




- Show quoted text -

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