Re: consequences of skepticism of evolution theory

In article <25453337-bf6f-4ae1-8a92-65c3508624cd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, calvin wrote:
On Oct 5, 11:13 am, hersheyh <hershe...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Oct 5, 10:58 am, calvin <cri...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Read 'The Communist Manifesto', by Karl Marx.  It's very short; you
can read it standing up in a bookstore.

What does it have to say that is relevant?  The governments that acted
were not communist, most of the scientists who presented the evidence
were not openly communists (interestingly, there are many areas of
science where being a communist, or a Muslim, or a Christian, a
liberal, or a conservative seems to make no difference).  Are you
claiming that all academic scientists *have* read "The Communist
Manifesto" and were instantly transported into a state of knowing that
they must invent "global warming" (or "ozone holes" or "thalidomide
babies" or "thin-shelled raptor eggs" or whatever) to further the aims
of Karl Marx?  I think I have read it some years ago.  It was not a
memorable read.  Are you saying that it had a subliminal message that
warped my brain and made me invent scientific data to honor the
proletariat and further the class struggle?

I'm not talking about any conspiracy, but only about the
prevailing ideology in the universities, which has led to
my distrust. Do a survey of teachers, students, and
administrations, and you will find the Marx book revered
far more than the U.S. Constitution, I believe.

That's a statement that requires evidence. That, plus
the several assumptions carried with it.

First, what evidence -- as opposed to your political wishes --
lead you to believe that this is the case? And, if it wasn't
evidence, why are you acting on it as if it were reality?

That partly aside, next show that 'the Marx book' has
been revered continuously:
a) throughout the last 60 years (scientists currently working
have their educations dating back that far)
b) in math, natural science, and engineering departments
c) throughout the world

a)
I'm pretty sure that things have changed some over the
past 60 years, pretty much regardless of what you're talking
about. At my graduate school, for instance, Milton Friedman
was far more revered than Marx. (Actually, Friedman may
have been considered rather liberal by the median undergraduate.)

b)
The math, science, engineering folks I knew (and know) were
(are) much more conservative (in the sense, at least, of
not liking Marx) than other departments in universities. Since
climate science falls under the math/science/engineering,
whether you could find some sociology majors who liked Marx,
or a course in Marxist literary interpretation is quite irrelevant.

c)
However 'liberal' you think US education is, there are
educational systems elsewhere in the world, with different
politics and political preferences. Again, add in the
reality of 60 years' changes in what those political preferences
would look like.

Regardless of age, nationality, religion, voting preferences,
etc., CO2 is still a greenhouse gas, warming is happening,
and so forth.

After establishing all that, you still have a job to do to demonstrate
-- to yourself, much less anyone here -- that 'revering Marx' leads to
particular conclusions as to whether CO2 is a greenhouse gas, warming
is happening, or the rest. For communist (vs. Marx) purposes, or for
libertarian, or most other ideologies, I really don't see that it makes
the slightest difference what the science has to say. Regardless of
the science, the Cato institute will say to deregulate, and the communist
(if you could even find one today) will say to regulate. Say that the
temperature went up last month, and that's their answer. Say it went
down, and it's still their answer.


But, as I said, all that doesn't matter to me anymore.

Enough, though, that you're still holding to the given view
in spite of the absence of evidence to support its truth.

I will read what the scientists have to say, beginning with
Mr. Grumbine's primary reference, to the extent that I can
understand what they say.

So that's progress. As is your mention in a different post
that you're going to quit paying attention to liberal politicians
for the science.

Next up is to also quit paying attention to conservative
politicians (your list of '400' being from Inhofe) and
papers (national post was your citation). For the science,
again. If you consider Inhofe a great thinker on conservative
principles, by all means read him for that. But he doesn't
know the science.

--
Robert Grumbine http://moregrumbinescience.blogspot.com/ Science blog
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

.

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