Re: Life after people

On Sep 25, 11:49 am, All-seeing-I <ap...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Sep 25, 12:43 pm, Kermit <unrestrained_h...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

<snip>


Out of balance may be more appropriate. Why? Because the earth before
man was quite different  upon man's arrival.

Yes. And it was different before the arrival of dinosaurs, and
different before the arrival of tetrapods, and...
What do you think is being balanced by our presence?

Then it changed again
with the corruption brought by the sons of god mating with the
daughters of men.

Evidence?

mankinds DNA

There is no indication in the human genome that we are hybrids.


numerous recorded ancient historical texts

Fairy tales, myths, and poetry are not evidence.

<snip>

The malignancy is part of the corruption. Man cannot control his
behavior and live with nature. He wants to control nature.

Well, we can control our nature to some degree, that's practically the
definition of human. Didn't you ever read Dune?

No, i have not read Duns. Why?

In the SF novel Dune, a Bene Geserit witch tested the hero Paul. She
threatened him with death if he did not show sufficient self-control,
for he had too much power unless he was a true human. I've always
rather thought of that definition as useful.


My point is mankind is the higest order of creatures on earth. Without
us life on earth would be in chaos.

You keep saying this, but you don't explain what you mean. Other than
doing things without a plan, how is it chaos without humans?

But this was not the case "In the
Beginning". In the beginning before the earths corruption life could
survive quite nicely without mankind.

Please give evidence that life without humans now would not survive.

<snip>


The bible tells us to go forth and multiply. It doesn't caution us to
avoid exceed the planet's carrying capacity. Once again, it turns out
that the bible was warning us all along, but it wasn't until the
scientists said something that we knew what the bible was clearly
telling us.

Yeah. But the point is we should know this without science. But
because of our corrupted state we do not think far enough ahead to
realize that what we do has long lasting impacts

It takes science to understand this.

The Anasasi, for example, used up all their trees, which contributed
greatly to the downfall of their culture and communities. But it took
over three hundred years. How are they supposed to track this sor tof
slow process without statistics, measurements, surveys, analyses of
mechanism, and the like?


 Isaiah 24:5
The earth is defiled by its people; they have disobeyed the laws,
violated the statutes and broken the everlasting covenant.

Numbers 35:33
So ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are: for blood it defileth
the land: and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed
therein, but by the blood of him that shed it.

So when God ordered all those genocides, he was wrong?


Leviticus 18:25 And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the
iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her
inhabitants.

We were warned as long ago as 3500 years ago

I don't see anything there about coal plants or acidifying the oceans.




In the bible the earth was destroyed by flood and as we see in the
documentry the earth has the ability to quickly renew itself.

I thought you said it reverted to chaos?

Read for comprehension, eh?

So, do you think humans impose order on chaos or not?

Humans offer a corrupted form of order.

Wait... do you approve of human-imposed order or not?

No.

And yet you think that life without us would degenerate into chaos.

Roses growing wherever the Hell they want to, cats and dogs sleeping
together?


<snip>

There is a difference between man's made up religions and God.

<raises eyebrow>

What, pray tell, would that be?

One is powerful. The other just thinks it is.

Ah. Perhaps you could demonstrate this power, or point to examples of
it?

There is no way the processes on the earth were unguided at their conception.

You forgot to tell us how you "knew" this.

It is IN the bible.

Um... have you noticed that none of us, including the theists,
consider the bible to be evidence in the scientific sense?

I would be interested in knowing what processes are guided now, except
by humans.

I said at their conception. "In the Beginning"

OK. So what makes you think so? What would be different now if you
were wrong?

What the hell do you even mean by guided processes when talking about
nature?

<snip>


Would these be the same facts that originate from a mankind that you
say has screwed every thing up so badly?

No, a different mankind. There are people who do science, or generally
accept what the scientists say, and there are those who are
disinterested in science, ignorant of science, or just so self-
centered that they really don't care about future generations.

It is not generally the biologists or climatologists or ecologists who
are strip mining mountains to sell the coal.

That's right. But it is the biologists or climatologists or ecologists
and other types of science that lend material support for a profit to
those that want to strip coal from the earth.

Generally, no. Geologists maybe, and not most of them.


We have built an Achilles heel. We need the coal. But taking the coal
has consequences.

There are alternatives, such as recently developed ways to collect
natural gas deposits in the US (not clean, but less dirty, buying us
time, and local, making it less likely we will invade another country
for its oil). In any event, the coal and oil burning (and everything
involved with it) will destroy civilization and kill most (but not
all) of us, unless we do something about it, and soon.




How can you trust mankind's
facts when everything that mankind touches gets corrupted in one way
or the other?

Not everything we touch gets corrupted. The health of the planet is a
result of physical processes, not a result of somebody having sex with
the wrong gender, or going to church on Sunday instead of the Sabbath,
or opening the eggs from the big end rather than the little end.

Even from a child man's thoughts gravitate toward evil


Yours maybe. I assure you my obsession with the Shaunessy twins when I
was 13 was not evil. Sigh. Doomed to failure and frustration, but
"A man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a heaven for?"

Part of the evil that religion can do is convince people that they are
depraved simply for breathing.



Jesus explained this already. You will know them by the fruit they
produce. If man made facts are correct then everything man does must
be correct. But we know that is not the case. Mankind produces bad
fruit.

Assuming you're human, are you arguing that your "facts" are
worthless? I would agree, but only because they generally fly in the
face of observations, not any particular interpretations of any
particular book of magic and myth.

How do you know your observations are accurate? You are operating in a
corrupt state of being

No, I am human and therefore prone to error. That's why evidence must
be verifiable - and verified - to count in science. And that is why
hypotheses and theories must be testable, and serious attempts are
always mad eto falsify them.

May I point out that it is your fantasies, derived from the Holy
Rorschach Ink Blots, that are untestable and unverifiable?

You can't claim that you are infallible just because you claim that
you are correctly interpreting what you claim is a god's message to,
well, you, apparently.

If one of us were (work with me here) skeptical that you were right,
how would they verify it?




It is more likely that mankind is misinterpretation evidences from his
corrupted state of being.

You have to look at evidence first, before you can misinterpret it.

Put your ancient texts back on the bookshelf and take a few entry-
level science classes at your local junior college.

All of the science that is necessary is in the bible. There is no need
for a man made science.

Tell that to a kid cured of leukemia. Tell that to the kids who did
*not die from smallpox last year. Or the year before that. Or the 20
or so years before that. Or the cop who had her arm reattached. Or
you, posting your messages on the internet.

Give up your glasses, your dental work, your computer; don't get
vaccinated, toss your cell phone. You don't need manmade science.

All you need is your voice to call your creator god a jokester - the
world isn't really as it seems. You know better, for you have Ancient
Texts®.


it is modern science that has accelerated the detraction of the earth

It's contributed, yes. Scientists are now trying to warn folks.




IOW your science does more harm then good. The condition of the earth
is evidence of that.

In the US, the Religious Right have decided that the bible says we
can't seriously hurt the Earth. Besides, Jesus is coming soon, right?
They are the most dangerous and obstinate block of citizens fighting
any action against global warming and other problems of this nature
(with the possible exception of the energy industry).

Israel, therefore AGW isn't real.

It's the scientists who are warning people. Most folks would be
willing to take action, but they don't understand the dangers (and
it's less disturbing to believe it's not a problem). therefore, it
isn't.

The entire global warming thing is to build a world economy. Create
jobs. Generate money for the war chests

See?
Your denial would lead us to a collapse of all that makes us different
from the other animals.
Big Business is fighting this information tooth and nail.


Besides. Do you actually think man can stop a melt down,. or an ice
age?

We caused it, of course we can stop it. It's relatively simple. But it
won't be easy.




So how can you put so much trust in man made facts when you your self
have established that mankind has done nothing but destroy everything
around him?

I never said that all we do is destroy.

We do more damage than repair, however. This could change, but we are
not yet motivated, and we are rapidly running out of time.

Man cannot stop nature any more then man can stop God's plans.

How does a jet plane or a vaccine or a microscope stop nature? Who
says nature can be stopped, whatever that means?

No miracles, and no mercy. Learn or die; that a collective choice.
Trust me, if I could save civilization alone and let the fearful and
self-deceived party or pray themselves to death, I would let them. But
if we don't get enough people on board, it could be bad.




Now he seeks to destroy God and replace God with this nonsense of
evolution.

I am determined to put as much energy into destroying God as I do into
destroying Santa Claus.

Why would you want to keep the kids from having Santa?

<rolls eyes>
I hope you're joking, I can't tell. In case you weren't, that was my
point.

I am not putting energy into destroying any non-existent entity.




If I were a theist, however, I would remind you of the parable told by
a certain rabbi about the master who left town for a while and left
his fortune in the hands of three slaves. It was the one who
responsibly  invested his portion of of the estate that was rewarded.
Not the one who spent it foolishly, nor the ...

We have not spent our inheritance wisely.


Agreed.

But if we return to God he will accept us like the prodigal sons that
we are.

If we don't fix what we're doing to the planet, our children, and
their children, will die.

Kermit

.

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