Re: did man walk on the moon...and creationism.

On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 23:40:34 +0200, nospam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (J. J.
Lodder) enriched this group when s/he wrote:

Ye Old One <usenet@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 00:13:25 +0200, nospam@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (J. J.
Lodder) enriched this group when s/he wrote:

Wombat <trigby@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 5 Aug, 17:02, nos...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (J. J. Lodder) wrote:
Wombat <tri...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 5 Aug, 12:07, Ye Old One <use...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 23:44:53 -0700 (PDT), Suzanne
<leila...@xxxxxxxxxxx> enriched this group when s/he wrote:

On Aug 4, 6:08 pm, Ye Old One <use...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 15:50:08 -0700 (PDT), Suzanne

Lines from Wikipedia say...
"On December 22, 1942, Adolf Hitler signed the order approving the
productino of the A-4 as a 'vengeance weapon' and the group
developed it to target London." (The A-4 was renamed the V-2.)

So? The name isn't relevant. The purpose of the design is. It was
designed to target civilian areas - it had no battlefield use at all.

There was one attempt to use the V-2 in a battlefield role. 11 were
pooped off at the Ludendorff bridge at Remagen - yes, that one. They
all missed!
http://john999555space.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!AC089ECEF5C6309D!290....

I already told him so sometime ago.
(like Suzanne, he just does't listen
to things he doesn't want to hear)
Even though no direct hit was scored
a V2 impact may have contributed
to the collapse of the bridge.

And the London and Antwerp docks
may well be considered a legitimate military target.
It it wasn't, then so were 'bomber' Harris raids.

The design of the V2
was for an accuracy of 2 permille,
better than an artillery shell.
It never achieved that, but by 1943
the measured CEP was down to 4.3 km.
The final V2 (with beam guidance)
is claimed to have had a CEP of 2 km,
good enough for battle field use.
The Americans can count themselves lucky
that only 11 V2s were available for Remagen.

So, the claim that the V2
was nothing but a terror weapon
by design and use is clearly wrong,

Jan

Yes, but how many were fired at London, compares to Remagen (11) and
Antwerp.
The first V-2 fired at London impacted in West London, many miles from
the Docks. Collateral damage, perhaps? Do you know how many actually
hit the docks in London or Antwerp?

Numbers don't matter for this.
We were discussing YOO's endlessly repeated assertion that
===
It (the V2) was designed to target civilian areas - it had no
battlefield use at all.
===
which is false.

No it isn't. It was designed to kill civilians.

It was not designed for use in battlefield conditions.

It was designed to deliver a ton of high explosive
as accurately as possible.

Since it was know, from the earliest design stage, that accuracy was
not going to be achievable, by definition it was designed to hit large
cities as a terror weapon.

A clear case of 'technology push':
we have this liquid fuel rocket motor,
and we'll do the best we can with it.

Even when aimed at London it wasn't targeted at civilian areas.

It was targeted at London, that was a close as they could get.

Incorrect. Early ones had a CEP of about 4 km.
This was later refined to about 2 km.
London is much bigger than that.

But still many of them missed because their guidance was so
rudimentary.

Given more time they would probably have achieved
their design goal of 2 permille.
(better than long range artillery)

Given a lot more time.

Even then some didn't hit their target.

Yes, so what?

Made battlefield use impossible - just as likely to hit your own
troops.

It just happened to hit civilians most of the time,
for lack of accuracy.
It didn't differ in that respect
from most other bomber missions in WW II.

Very big difference.

Yes. The Germans at least tried to hit
something of relevance with their V2s.
Harris on the other hand was a pure terrorist.
He carried out 'morale bombardment'
aimed not at factories of military relevance,
not at workers there, not at living quarters nearby,
but just at Germans in general.
(in the hope of getting them to overthrow the regime)

Blood good idea.

Jan


--
Bob.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: did man walk on the moon...and creationism.
    ... The purpose of the design is. ... designed to target civilian areas - it had no battlefield use at all. ... And the London and Antwerp docks ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: did man walk on the moon...and creationism.
    ... The purpose of the design is. ... designed to target civilian areas - it had no battlefield use at all. ... And the London and Antwerp docks ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: did man walk on the moon...and creationism.
    ... designed to target civilian areas - it had no battlefield use at all. ... And the London and Antwerp docks ... The design of the V2 ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: did man walk on the moon...and creationism.
    ... The purpose of the design is. ... And the London and Antwerp docks ... that idea that in circumstance similar WvB was a German patriot. ... I wonder what you would think of your great great grand parents owning slaves. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: did man walk on the moon...and creationism.
    ... The purpose of the design is. ... And the London and Antwerp docks ... that idea that in circumstance similar WvB was a German patriot. ... I wonder what you would think of your great great grand parents owning slaves. ...
    (talk.origins)
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