Re: Bison bottleneck

On Aug 5, 2:33 am, Ernest Major <{$t...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In message <lqth75d42r5l8tvgnp3mji1kh7gljqd...@xxxxxxx>, r norman
<r_s_nor...@xxxxxxxxxxx> writes





On Tue, 4 Aug 2009 19:54:26 -0700 (PDT), el cid <elcidbi...@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On Aug 4, 6:36 pm, r norman <r_s_nor...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Tue, 04 Aug 2009 22:47:02 +0100, Burkhard <b.scha...@xxxxxxxx>
wrote:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_8182000/8182104.stm

I found this quite interesting, with a good explanation of the
difference between absolute numbers and effective population,
determination of species boundaries, and the bottleneck problem
(discussed on various "flood threads") and also generally because Bison
are just cool, though if course not as cool as penguins which are just
the greatest animal

Thank you for including your own personal comments about why you think
it should be brought to our attention.   Your points are, indeed, well
taken.  I wasn't aware that there was a remnant of the European bison.
The American bison underwent a similar genetic bottleneck.  A
population which at one time may have numbered almost 100 million was
reduced to less than a thousand.    I believe these were distributed
in enough isolated sub-populations as to not begin to approach that of
the european version.  Incidentally, it seems that the american bison
was created from the european since the american one has 15 ribs, the
european only 14.

Are you suggesting that the first american bison did not have
a navel? Or would that be an omphalus argument?

I have seen pictures of Eve by Cranach, Durer, Titian, Jan van Eyck,
Gaugin, and many others.  They all had navels.  Could these all be
lies?  No way!  They are ancient documents (or ancient artworks at
least) so they must be truthful.

Only Gustav Klimt showed Eve without one, but he was an Austrian
Symbolist so who can believe him?  Besides, he was post Darwin so you
can't trust his interpretation.

I'm told that much medieval art depicting Adam and Eve has strategically
placed visual impedimenta (e.g. a vine) blocking their navels from the
viewer's sight, so that the artist didn't have to make a theologically
risky judgement as to whether Adam and Eve possessed navels.



But, to be terribly honest, I have no personal knowledge whether even
modern american bisons have navels.  Could you please look and check
this out?

--
alias Ernest Major-

The heck with navels, they cover up a lot more than that in those old
paintings, and for good reason. Why would God give Adam a penis when
there were no women created, and all he had as companions were the
animals that God brought him to name? What did God expect Adam to do
with a functional penis? Talk about potential theological discord.
"Animal rights activist" could have a whole new meaning.

I wrote the above to be funny, but I really don't know how the church
resolved the issue.

Ron Okimoto

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Bison bottleneck
    ...  I wasn't aware that there was a remnant of the European bison. ... The American bison underwent a similar genetic bottleneck. ... None of the three appear to have a navel! ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Bison bottleneck
    ... determination of species boundaries, and the bottleneck problem ...  I wasn't aware that there was a remnant of the European bison. ... The American bison underwent a similar genetic bottleneck. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Bison bottleneck
    ...  I wasn't aware that there was a remnant of the European bison. ... The American bison underwent a similar genetic bottleneck. ... None of the three appear to have a navel! ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Bison bottleneck
    ... determination of species boundaries, and the bottleneck problem ...  I wasn't aware that there was a remnant of the European bison. ... The American bison underwent a similar genetic bottleneck. ...
    (talk.origins)
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