Re: did man walk on the moon...and creationism.

On Jul 30, 9:19 pm, Suzanne <insane@xxxxxxxxxxx> lunaticed:
On Jul 30, 3:52 pm, Ye Old One <use...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:> On Thu, 30 Jul 2009 10:16:50 -0700 (PDT), Suzanne
<leila...@xxxxxxxxxxx> enriched this group when s/he wrote:

On Jul 30, 3:38 am, Ye Old One <use...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Wed, 29 Jul 2009 23:32:24 -0700 (PDT), Suzanne
<leila...@xxxxxxxxxxx> enriched this group when s/he wrote:

On Jul 29, 7:37 pm, Andre Lieven <andrelie...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jul 29, 7:49 pm, Suzanne <liar-for-jee...@xxxxxxxxxxxx> lies and
lies and lies:

On Jul 28, 5:19 am, Burkhard <b.scha...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

Gregory A Greenman wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jul 2009 22:16:10 -0700 (PDT), Andre Lieven wrote:
On Jul 27, 11:54=A0pm, Suzanne <lying-lo...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> cowshat
more:
Do you see this in print above? Here's another:
"After the war, VonBraun....was moved to the
US where he became the HEAD OF NASA for whom
he developed all the ballistics for the
Apollo 11 which eventually delivered
Neil Armstrong to the moon."http://www.algana.co.uk/FamousNames/V/vonbrau=
n.htm

"Your search -http://www.algana.co.uk/FamousNames/V/vonbraun.htm-
did not match any documents."

So, one WRONG "source", and a second one that does NOT exist...

Actually, that link works for me. And, it does have the quote that
Suzanne cited above. Interestingly, the part she omitted with
ellipsis reads: "was captured by the Americans and". In other posts
she has claimed that von Braun was not captured - that he
surrendered. (I've been wondering in what sort of fantasy world is
it possible to surrender to someone without that someone
simultaneously capturing you.)

While the site does (erroneously) support her claim that von Braun
was head of NASA, it also contradicts her claim that von Braun was
not captured. Further, she replaced the contradicting part of the
quote with ellipsis. This level of dishonesty is pretty sad and
pathetic.

This admits that the website says that v.B. is the head of
NASA,

IN ERROR. Trying to base YOUR claim on an ERROR of fact
is total lunacy; Yours.

showing that I was being truthful, and then it
concludes the post by saying that my lying is pathetic,
which is irony.

[......./] Irony Meter explodes.

He tells about the part that I left out, as though I didn't
want to bring it up, which is not the case. I simply did
not want to dwell on that since I'd already spoken to
that, I believe accurately. He surrendered and then
when he did, he was "taken into custody." That is how
one speaks of what they do after someone surrenders.
Any number of words could be used for people that
surrender and then are taken into custody. It had been
earlier alleged that they were taken as by force, and
that the American people had been lied to. There was
no plot to lie to us in the USA because that was news
when it happened, not after some plot was hatched.
Anyway, I had already spoken to that point and I
was not wishing to rehash it again, for it was not
important to what I had been saying in this post
that you are responding to.

Wingnut factless word salad.

Next, I have never said that he was the Administrator
of NASA. I said that he was the Head of the Marshall
Space Center, which was the first official home of
NASA,

IT WAS NOT ! NASA was set up TWO YEARS BEFORE
Marshall SFC became a part of NASA.

Not quite Andre.

He was 100% right, you are 100% wrong.

Sure, Bob...

Yes, 100% sure.

So right that you snipped my reply so that no one
could see it, I see.

Liar!

Yes it was voted on two years before
and approved in 1958.

Wrong, as usual. Is it possible for your to EVER get anything right?

It is not wrong, NASA was voted on and approved
in 1958,

On the 14th January 14 1958, Hugh L. Dryden, the Director of National
Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA) published "A National
Research Program for Space Technology," which stated: "It is of great
urgency and importance to our country both from consideration of our
prestige as a nation as well as military necessity that this challenge
[the launch of Sputnik] be met by an energetic program of research and
development for the conquest of space... It is accordingly proposed
that the scientific research be the responsibility of a national
civilian agency working in close cooperation with the applied research
and development groups required for weapon systems development by the
military. The pattern to be followed is that already developed by the
NACA and the military services... The NACA is capable, by rapid
extension and expansion of its effort, of providing leadership in
space technology."

On the 5th March 1958, James Killian, who chaired the President's
Science Advisory Committee, wrote a memorandum to President Dwight D.
Eisenhower. Titled, "Organization for Civil Space Programs," it
encouraged the President to sanction the creation of NASA. He wrote
that a civil space program should be based on a "strengthened and
redesignated" NACA, indicating that NACA was a "going Federal research
agency" with 7,500 employees and $300 million worth of facilities,
which could expand its research program "with a minimum of delay."

NASA was established by the National Aeronautics and Space Act on 29th
July 1958. It began operations on the 1st October 1958 when it
completely absorbed the 46-year-old NACA together with all of NACA's
8,000 employees, an annual budget of $100 million and over $300
million worth of assets including three major research laboratories
(Langley Aeronautical Laboratory, Ames Aeronautical Laboratory, and
Lewis Flight Propulsion Laboratory) and two small test facilities.

NASA hit the ground running. Earlier research efforts within the U.S.

You bet'cha they hit the ground running, Dr. Von Braun
and told them years earlier that they should put up a
satellite, and they turned it down.

That was the US Army, for whom VB worked at the time.

But when the Russians
did it in '57, they put on their running shoes. Still it took
a whole year, Bob.

So, we can add IN-ability to read a calendar to your long
list of Things Suzanne CAN'T do:

Sputnik 1 launched on 4 Oct 1957. Explorer 1 went up on
31 Jan 1958. Less than *four months*, dumbass.

Oh, and the Naval Research Lab's Vanguard 1 went up on 17
Mar 1958, and it is still in orbit.

Air Force and many of the Advanced Research Projects Agency's (ARPA)
early space programs were also transferred to NASA. In December 1958,
NASA gained control of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a contractor
facility operated by the California Institute of Technology.

On the 17th February 1959 NASA achieved its first real launch with the
worlds first weather satellite - Vanguard 2, a project it took over
from the United States Naval Research Laboratory.

NASA's first really major project was Project Mercury. It had been
planned under NACA's control but really got going as soon as NASA
started took control in 1958. Early test launches used the Little Joe
rocket designed and built by North American Aviation. Then came the
Redstone which was used for suborbital flights, and Atlas for orbital
ones. None involved WvB's team directly, though they had designed the
original Redstone missile.

In July 1960 elements of the Army Ballistic Missile Agency, of which
WvB's team was just a part, were transferred to NASA - TWENTY ONE
MONTHS after its formation.

Dr. Von Braun and his team moved to Huntsville
in 1950, Bob. This is in the history of NASA.

There was NO NASA in 1950. VB and Co. worked for the US Army until
1960.

 TO BE AN AGENCY, two years before the
NASA Marshall Space Flight Center (formerly the
Redstone Arsenal) was chosen and dedicated to be
the first home (field center) for NASA.

It was never the home of NASA. That is in Washington.

You  are trying to get information from websites
and you don't understand what you are reading,
nor will you listen.

<Massive Insane Lunatic Ignorant Projection>

This is in the
history of NASA on their home website, which says
the MSFC was the very first field center.

Nearly two years AFTER all the others.

So it's their
history that you are finding fault with.
"The Marshall Center became NASA's first field center"
 July 1, 1960."
 www.nasa.gov/centers/marshall/home
You are trying to make Langley be the first
field center facility,

One of the first three.

Bob, you are arguing with the recorded history
of NASA.

Total bullshit.

The MSFC is the FIRST field center, not Langley.

"Langley Research Center (LaRC) is the OLDEST of NASA's
field centers, located in Hampton, Virginia, United States."
(Emphasis added.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langley_Aeronautical_Laboratory

Not only are you a LIAR, you're a spectacularly dumb and BAD
liar.

I can't do more than show you the
information in the NASA website.

Try reading it for once.

and  you don't appear to
have grasped the gravity of what takes place
when congress passes something and it is
put on paper and then has to be worked out
in the real world.

Oh I do. You don't seem to realize that, in effect, it was already 46
years old because it took over the fully working NACA.

No one at all is trying to take any credit away
from the NACA, or Langley, or anyone, Bob.
We are talking about when NASA was voted
on, and when it set up it's first field center.

And, as shown, you are 100% WRONG on both points.

It is irrelevant that something was 46 years old when
NASA became an agency by a vote of congress.
Are trying to establish that the NACA already
was seasoned and knew what they were doing,
and therefore did not need to wait for two years
in order to get things moving and NASA formed
immediately after the vote approving the agency
to exist? No one questions the NACA's abilities.
But there were issues going on that you probably
don't know about unless you read portions of it
here and there.

I call 100% BULLSHIT here. Provide a *specific cite*
for this extraordinary conspiracy-whackjob claim, or
eat the fact that you ARE a liar.

Von Braun's team knew that we
could put up a satellite and actually proposed it
in 1955. But it was a weak plan because the
satellite would be so small that they wondered if
we could even detect it, once it was up there.
But those things could have been worked out,
but the Army and Von Braun team were not
selected in 1955 to work it out. Instead, the
cartoonists had a field day. You see, even with
your 46 year old group you are mentioning,
just knowing how to do something doesn't make
it happen, and especially not overnight.

Meaningless word salad.

I have explained this several
times. Congress voted to create NASA. It was voted
on and approved. It became a government controlled
agency. The agency set up what was called task
meetings at each location chosen to be in NASA.
Those meetings were fruitful and reports were sent
to the agency heads in Washington, which met in
some office there,

The offices of the NACA which they had taken over.

Oh, sure. Congress would love to have you leading
such matters! Just pass a law and ZAP! Suddenly
the whole outfit materializes in pristine form.

Yes, that is exactly what happened. Ok, the "zap" took
over 40 years.

Well, don't get the idea that in 1958 when NASA
was voted on and came into being as an agency,
that it got going overnight because a lot went into
getting it all together.

Nonetheless, Marshall was NOT NASA's "first
field center."

I'm not blaming anyone in
the government, it's just complicated.

Far too much for your empty skull to grasp.

Neither
you nor Andre understand that what is passed and
put down on paper, needs to be worked out in the
real world. You have no concept of what it involved
when they approved NASA to be formed. They had
to have many task force meetings. What you all need
desparately to do is read the timeline in the history of
NASA to see how things work.

Unlike you we understand how things happened.

LOL, you do not.

"What is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without
evidence." Christopher Hitchens.

What you have been printing
are facts that are not coordinated with one
another.

<Massive Insane Lunatic Ignorant Projection>

Sort of like you have put up a skeleton of
things, but without any of the meat on the bones.

"Langley Research Center (LaRC) is the OLDEST of NASA's
field centers, located in Hampton, Virginia, United States."
(Emphasis added.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langley_Aeronautical_Laboratory

but since the facilities were in
many places, they needed to have a better location
for a home for NASA.

In Washington.

LOL! Apparently they didn't agree with you.
Nor did they ask your permission. They
needed a local place that was in the actual
field.

Wrong, as usual.

That's her specialty: She is as 100% wrong as spinny, and
the other IDiots.

Andre

.

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