Re: did man walk on the moon...and creationism.

On Jul 18, 1:34 pm, "Mike Dworetsky"
<platinum...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"Andre Lieven" <andrelie...@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:237be133-5f46-4a7e-bc5b-d3d556274035@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
On Jul 18, 4:20 am, "Mike Dworetsky"



<platinum...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"Andre Lieven" <andrelie...@xxxxxxxx> wrote in message

news:761195a7-873d-4bda-bab6-e5ca7220a0d8@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Again, one specific point in this...

On Jul 14, 12:00 pm, "Mike Dworetsky"

<platinum...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"spintronic" <spintro...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message

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On 14 July, 15:38, Wombat <tri...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 14 July, 15:29, spintronic <spintro...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 14 July, 12:31, Wombat <tri...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 14 July, 12:33, wf3h <w...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I presume the Moon landing deniers have an explanation for the
laser
reflector set up during one of the Apollo missions that is, as far
as I know, still working today.

Faulty logic as always.

I suppose to have a probe on mars means man must have placed them
there.

I suppose a robot probe might have been able to get a reflector to the
moon, might even have set it up. Were there two Cape Kennedy
launches that time - one Apollo and one probe with the reflector?
Any problem with that logic, berk.

Wombat

Still faulty logic.

Probe could have been months earlier.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MD

There are working retroreflectors at each Apollo landing site, not just
Apollo 11.

Well, not quite. Not every Apollo flight that landed on the Moon
brought along all the same items to place on the lunar surface.

In the case of the Laser Reflectors, three missions had them, Apollo
11 & 14, and Apollo 15, whose reflector was about three times the
size of the first pair.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Laser_Ranging_Experiment

Now, there are also two reflectors aboard now long dead unmanned
Soviet Moon buggies, the pair of Lunokhods. They did get there
unmanned, but there is also evidence that they had landing stages
that deposited them on the Moon. The Apollo reflectors had no such
landing stages, as they were stored within the Lunar Module in flight,
and were removed manually after the lunar landing.

Andre

That multiplies the requirement for your supposed conspiracy to
numerous multiple launchings. Even an unmanned landing on the Moon in
the
1969-72 time frame (or any other) would have required the participation
of
hundreds of people and the use of large ground control facilities
(similar
to the earlier Surveyor programme), and for not one of them to ever
break
their silence.

--
Mike Dworetsky

(Remove pants sp*mbl*ck to reply)

OK, if that's the case, I stand corrected on one technical detail, but it
doesn't negate the essential argument that for a conspiracy to fake the
moon
landings it would have to be huge, involve hundreds of people, and a major
ground control system.

Of course. My correction on the one detail WRT the Apollo laser
reflectors
in no way was to imply or suggest that a conspiracy to fake even one
Moon
landing, never mind six of them, plus three more flights to/past the
Moon,
would have to have been HUGE, and thus, impossible to hide for more
than
about 5 minutes.

You simply could not hide it. And no conspiracy
that size would go unexposed by participants. The USSR would have seen to
it. And they didn't.

Exactly. Heck, one of the biggest then radio telescopes around,
Jodrell Bank,
in the UK, was tracking both Apollo 11 as well as the Soviet unmanned
probe,
Luna 15, and had either flight been a fake, they would have known it.

Andre
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's an example of a detail that conspiracy theorists overlook.  Now,
apparently they differ on the question of exactly where the astronauts were
located during the conversations between earth and moon.  Some say they
were on Earth, or in low Earth orbit.  Based on the evidence of Jodrell Bank
and other NASA-independent observers who had narrow-beam antennas
pointed at the moon,
the radio signals **had** to come from the Moon.  So if the astronauts
had been anywhere but on, or in the vicinity of, the Moon, the light-speed
delay time would have been twice as long (two journeys there and two
journeys back for the reply relay.  (Note: to admit this fact, they would
also have to admit that the Van Allen belt was not a source of fatal
radiation.)  Furthermore, the source of their radio signal could be
doppler-tracked and had the same velocity as if they were on the lunar
surface.  So the only conspiracy fall-back is that they went to the Moon
(and were at least in orbit) but faked it by relaying their scripted remarks
through a transmitter that was landed on the surface.

Indeed. The light-speed time of transmissions is a major killer of the
claims of the Moon denier wingnutters.

I could go on, but you get the idea.

Oh, absolutely. The sheer number of major technical refutations to the
claims of the wingnutters is quite large, and their sheer failure to
grasp
any of the technology involved is pretty close to total.

The stuff on badastronomy covers it quite well.

Andre

.

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