Re: Ok my pets. Let's look at complexity.

Garamond Lethe wrote:
[M]adman wrote:

.

.

<quote>
"It is possible to make a more fundamental distinction between
living and nonliving things by examining their molecular structure
and molecular behavior. In brief, living organisms are distinguished
by their specified complexity."
</quote>

<http://books.google.com/books?id=6_ECd6Me8vQC&pg=PA78&lpg=PA78&dq=%22It+is+possible+to+make+a+more+fundamental+distinction+between+living+and+nonliving+things+by+examining+their+molecular+structure+and+molecular+behavior.
+In+brief,+living+organisms+are+distinguished+by+their+specified+complexity.
%22&source=bl&ots=9xUD4Yz25i&sig=AMSoHByu6YTymLq7MW9l1yBD4uA&hl=en&ei=YHo0SvipGsmLtgexhsz4Dg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1>

Leslie Orgel (1973) as quoted by Casey Luskin in "Finding Intelligent
Design
in Nature", chapter 4 of H. Wayne House's _Intelligent Design 101_.

Google books chops out the Orgel reference, but it's probably:

Orgel, Leslie. _The Origins of Life: Molecules and Natural
Selection._
Chapman and Hall, London, 1973.

The text is not available on google books, but this summary should do.

<q>
For Dembski, specified complexity is a property which can be observed
in
living things. However, whereas Orgel used the term for that which, in
Darwinian theory, is supposed to be created through (undirected)
evolution,
Dembski uses it for that which, per his own theory, cannot be created
through undirected evolution-and concludes that it allows one to infer
intelligent design. While Orgel employed the concept in a qualitative
way,
Dembski's use is intended to be quantitative.
</q>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specified_complexity#Orgel.27s_original_use





It appears he/she is saying that some matter is distinguished by an
arrangement of atoms that causes it to be what it is; i.e. A rock.
While there are other atoms that seem to be arranged in such a way
that they perform a specific designed function for a purpose; which
of course would take an intelligence to arrange them and to insure
that the process perpetuates. Stem cells would be a good example.
Stem cells appear to perform a multitude of tasks that are far to
complicated to be a simple arrangement of atoms like found in an
inanimate rock.

If you wish to understand what a an author is saying, you might find
it more
effective to read more than the handful of sentences Casey Luskin
decided to
quote.



<conclusion>
Both the rock and stem cells are made of an arrangement of atoms.
One is clearly more complicated then the other which suggest the
stem cells are designed to serve a purpose beyond being inanimate.

You may place your answers here:

_GO_ !

The quoted text is thirty years old.

Its use of "specified complexity" predates that of Dembski and differs
significantly from Dembski's definition.

Orgel's definition never caught on, probably because it wasn't
useful. A
scholar.google.com search of <Orgel "specified complexity"> yields 45
hits,
most of which are about intelligent design.

(The book as a whole was far more influential, and deservedly so.)

Casey Luskin didn't point any out this out, of course, and he knows
his
readers well enough to know they aren't going to be looking this up.
They're gullible that way.

So here are a few questions for you:

1. Why is Luskin citing a 30-year-old definition that never gained
traction
among biologists?

2. Why is he using this definition to support Dembski's definition
when the
two are quite dissimilar?

3. Casey assumed his readers would be gullible enough not to track
down the
above information. In your case, that estimation was spot on.

How did you get to be so gullible?

More like ignorant of the subject obviously, but not gullible

However, the overall idea seems reasonable.

Some atoms are formed into inanimate objects. They serve no purpose other
then the fact they exist. At best they can be used by intelligent living
creatures. However, Some atoms are formed to do what appears to be a job
AND they have the ability to keep doing that job over and over as well as
replicate and acquire intelliegence. Atoms forming to do a job, self
replicate as well as do various jobs such as we see with the T-cell sounds
designed and created.

..


.

Relevant Pages
Loading