Re: Seeing is Believing

On Jun 3, 4:12 pm, "Greg G." <ggw...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jun 3, 4:29 am, Joseph Humming <jos...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:





On Jun 3, 7:08 am, "[M]adman" <ad...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Devils Advocaat wrote:
On 3 June, 05:17, "[M]adman" <ad...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
John McKendry wrote:
On Tue, 02 Jun 2009 13:27:42 -0500, [M]adman wrote:

Joseph Humming wrote:
On Jun 2, 9:48 am, Stuart <bigdak...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jun 1, 9:27 am, Joseph Humming <jos...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

< stream of human consciousness snipped>

Joseph Humming

You owe me money for my having read even just a part of that.

Stuart

I'm so sorry for challenging your preconceived notions...:-)

Yeah. They /hate/ that

That's just sad. Joseph is an eccentric with a grand vision. You
are a small twisted man with your eyes tightly shut. Don't even try
to suggest that he belongs to your side.

John

/Exactly/ what "side" would THAT be?

Are you saying you don't know which side you are on?

I'm saying /HE/ does not know what side i am on- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Meanwhile, the "eccentric with the grand vision" watches on the
sidelines, bemused while the mighty thunder rages alround him. I will
simply repeat and condense my "vision" in the hope of stirring a shard
of real debate. I suggest that matter pursues, and has always persued,
the most advanced form possible in all of its phases.  Thus, early on,
it created all of the elements.Why should it do this so assiduously -
unless it was driven by a particular force, or unless the forces
inherent in nature push it in this direction? Then it created
molecules, up to the life molecule, where this was possible. Then life
explored every avenuie of expression. And now us. Following on from
the above our compulsion must be the complete ordering and bringing-to-
intelligence/knowledge of human society.

If "matter pursues, and has always persued, the most advanced form
possible in all of its phases", why is the universe still mostly
hydrogen and helium?

Fantastic.

Fair point. My initial statement is far too general. Can I suggest
that the outcome "sought" by matter requires that these less complex
elements form a substrate supporting or sustaining whatever action
occurs higher up the chain?

In a mindless, random walk, things can become less complex or more
complex. If they are simple, they can only become more complex. If
complexity is open-ended then the most complex thing in the universe
can either become less complex or become even more complex.

I don't understand that. Sorry.


Atoms have never "pursued" more complex forms, they were forced to
become that way by gravity-induced fusion.

Atoms are forms of matter. I'm not suggesting the atoms themselves
dictated whatever process was afoot. I am perhaps suggesting that
atoms were matter's instruments or agents...?

I do think that there are processes that can generate complexity, such
as fusion and natural selection of random variations of a reproductive
system.- Hide quoted text -

Agreed.

- Show quoted text -

Fantastic.

.

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