Re: David Dryden - Searching All of Sequence Space

On May 7, 11:37 pm, Burkhard <b.scha...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
On May 8, 12:52 am, seanpitnos...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:



On May 7, 3:11 pm, Burkhard <b.scha...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 7 May, 22:34, Seanpit <sean...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On May 7, 1:25 pm, Burkhard <b.scha...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

What I see (again)  is the arbitrariness of the concept of
informational complexity, which looks more and more like a failed
attempt of "lab coat envy" by information scientists to sound like
physicists. Hence the misguided attempts to find an analogy to the
laws of thermodynamic.

It is not arbitrary.  It is measurable as the minimum structural
threshold requirement needed to achieve a particular type of
phenomenon or functionality.  You're just confused because you're
confusing different definitions of the term "complexity".  Algorithmic
or Kolmogorov complexity isn't the same thing as meaningful or
functional complexity.

SeanPitmanwww.DetectingDesign.com

I don't think I confuse the two concepts - that would mean to confuse
a reasonable clear and well defined concept that I think i have a
basic grasp of, with one i find utterly vague, ad hoc and arbitrary.
So even in a bad light, with lots of lipstick and after several pints
of beer,  they do not look the same.

E.g. your black granite cube - does it matter for its "functional
complexity" if its function is to serve as ad hoc coffee table for
space aliens -  which comes in more or less that form already because
of the way they process their food and how their rectum if formed -
or is a part of a highly distributed, galaxy wide piece of machinery
that keeps gravity going, or an abstract piece of art appreciated only
by a specific race of aliens an traditionally made over millenia by
polishing the block with the hair of the eldest female member of the
clan?

The granite cube is the product.  The question is, what level of
functional informational complexity would it take to produce such a
cube?

Again, you're confusing the product with the process.  The functional
information is in the process, not necessarily the product.

SeanPitmanwww.DetectingDesign.com

So "functional complexity" has actually nothing to do with function?
Nor really with information. Glad to have cleared that up.

And without having any theory on the mechanism that produced the cube,
by using hair brushes on stone or as th eoffal of a species with a
really hard and rectangular sphincter, I know the "functional
complexity" of the cube exactly how?

You know that whatever produced the cube, it wasn't a random process.
It was highly specified and precise. That kind of specificity and
precision is not produced by mindless natural processes when it comes
to interactions with granite. It therefore requires a fairly high
minimum structural threshold requirement to produce such precision.
That is why such a cube is or would be so clearly artifactual - even
if discovered on an alien planet. The very same thing is true for the
SETI-type radio signals. The informational complexity needed to
produce them is beyond that known to be achievable by mindless natural
processes in certain locations in the universe.

Sean Pitman
www.DetectingDesign.com

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Felsenstein v. Dembski
    ... as one moves up the ladder of functional complexity. ... informational complexity - as do human-designed robots. ... anything about evolution. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Felsenstein v. Dembski
    ... one moves up the ladder of functional complexity. ... fine at very low levels this ... informational complexity - as do human-designed robots. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: David Dryden - Searching All of Sequence Space
    ... informational complexity, which looks more and more like a failed ... phenomenon or functionality. ... confusing different definitions of the term "complexity". ... complexity" of the cube exactly how? ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: David Dryden - Searching All of Sequence Space
    ... informational complexity, which looks more and more like a failed ... phenomenon or functionality. ... confusing different definitions of the term "complexity". ... complexity" of the cube exactly how? ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: use of real numbers in mathematics and physics
    ... >computer program which emits that string. ... >instructions executed) complexity. ... itself requires similarly infinite precision. ...
    (sci.physics.research)