Re: Oh My. What an intresting development we have here.

On 3 May, 03:56, "[M]adman" <ad...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
unrestrained_h...@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

: On May 2, 12:13 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote::: Chris wrote:

::
::: On May 1, 4:03 pm, "[M]adman" <ad...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
:::: "Leena Peltonen is one of the world's leading medical geneticists.
:::: Trained as both a physician and a molecular biologist, she has
:::: discovered the genetic sources for many rare diseases, such as
:::: Marfan syndrome, a connective-tissue disorder. She has also found
:::: hereditary links to more prevalent conditions, such as multiple
:::: sclerosis, schizophrenia, osteoarthritis, and migraine.."
::::
:::: She sounds like an obviously well qualified woman in her field.
::::
:::: "The raw material for her investigations is DNA collected from
:::: people in Finland. Research by Peltonen and by her compatriots Juha
:::: Kere, Jukka Salonen, Albert de la Chapelle, and Jaakko Tuomilehto
:::: have made Finland into a sort of DNA laboratory for mankind."
::::
:::: "The genetic homogeneity, or sameness, of the Finns makes them
:::: easier to study than Californians, say, who hail from all over. To
:::: illustrate, Peltonen drew two pairs of human chromosomes, which
:::: were shaped something like swallowtail butterflies. Symbolizing two
:::: Finnish people, the four chromosomes were similar-banded
:::: horizontally with the same light-and-dark patterns. "These guys are
:::: the boring Finns," she said with a trace of irony. She drew another
:::: set of chromosomes representing a pair of Californians, and the
:::: banding patterns were quite dissimilar. The variance shows up
:::: better at the group level. Think of the human genome as a very
:::: large deck of cards, each card bearing a gene variant. The number
:::: of cards in the Finnish deck is fewer than the number of cards in
:::: the California deck because the Finns have fewer gene variants, or
:::: alleles, to play with. When scientists look for variants that
:::: cause diseases, they're easier to spot in the Finnish deck because
:::: so many cards are similar."
::::
:::: Wait a minuet here. THIS sounds like reproductive isolation.
::::
:::: "The uniformity of Finns, created by several centuries of isolation
:::: and intermarriage, results in a large set of hereditary disorders.
::::
:::: BY George! i think it IS reproductive isolation !!
::::
:::: But i thought reproductive isolation would cause a new species! Are
:::: the Finns STILL humans? I hope so!
::::
:::: ""How do you genetically define race?" Peltonen answered, shaking
:::: her head. Race is used in biology for birds and animals-the term is
:::: tantamount to subspecies-but her studies had no use for it.
:::: Patterns of human variation can be linked to geography, and
:::: geographic ancestry can be linked to health risks. As a genetic
:::: explorer Peltonen has followed the movement of populations in
:::: history, knowing that genes had diversified during the moves, but
:::: in Finland as elsewhere only a tiny fraction of the alleles and
:::: health risks are distinctive. "Race may fade away once we
:::: understand all the variants," she said. "But for diagnostic
:::: purposes it will be useful to know where your roots are. That's
:::: the value of the Finnish Disease Heritage. The story of these
:::: genes helps us visualize how Finland was settled."
::::
:::: How about THAT. She uses HISTORY and GEOGRAPHIC ANCESTORY. It
:::: sounds like the Finns ARE still human. Whew! I bet the Fins are
:::: glad to hear THAT. Because the evolutionists would want to call
:::: them something else! BUT wait! Something else has happened!
:::: Reproductive Isolation has not caused new species to develop but
:::: It has caused disease to rise.
::::
:::: "So far researchers have identified 39 such genetic diseases, many
:::: of them fatal, that crop up in the unlucky children of unwary
:::: carriers. Peltonen, who began her career as a pediatrician, said:
:::: "Genetic diseases transform the family. You know the children won't
:::: get better." Since switching her focus to research, Peltonen and
:::: her associates have identified 18 of the 39 endemic conditions."
::::
:::: So much for reproductive isolation i suspose. It seems that
:::: reproductive isolation causesd disease and NOT new species. I guess
:::: it is back to the drawing board for the evolutionists!
::::
:::: HAND!
::::
:::: --
:::: It is all about the truth with:
:::: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
:::: ·.¸Adman¸.·
:::: ^^^^^^^^^^^
:::
::: To be fair, it DOES sound like "reproductive isolation" but what
::: she's talking about is not reproductive isolation in the sense
::: evolutionary geneticists use the phrase. You did notice she's a
::: _medical_ geneticist, not an _evolutionary_ geneticist, I hope?
::: Those are two related but different fields.
:::
::: Back to your assertion. I am afrad you have once again failed your
::: lesson. Weeks ago you were lectured on the causes of evolution. Do
::: you recall them? Didn't think so. They are:
:::
::: 1. Mutation
::: 2. Selection
::: 3. Drift
::: 4. Gene flow
::: 5. Nonrandom mating
:::
::: What we have in the case of the Finns is a textbook case of Genetic
::: Drift (and it's been used in textbooks: see Campbell's _Biology_,
::: Fifth ed. I believe) followed by Nonrandom Mating. Note further that
::: geographic isolation, while the cause of most speciation in
::: vertebrates, would not operate on the time scale you imagine. Maybe
::: a few hundred years is sufficient for speciation in tropical
::: _Drosophila_ (but maybe not), but it surely is not enough time for
::: an organism with a generation time measured in decades.
:::
::: The rest of your silly strawmen fall apart once you realize this.
:::
::: I know it won't stop you from trolling, but it might mute you for a
::: little while.
:::
::: Chris
::
:: Such a piece of work this post is Chris. Hell, i may imortalize it
:: with a web page or something.
::
:: To folks in lurk land:
::
:: Notice how the theory of evolution is plyable and fluid enough to be
:: molded to fit just about every situation.
:
: In your obscure way, you are saying that it answers every pertinent
: question. Well, it doesn't quite, but you don't know enough to test
: its limits in the field.
:
:: Despite the fact that a doctor, well
:: trained and qualified in a molecular biology claims that reproductive
:: isolation is the main factor in genetic disease within the Finn
:: population.
:
: Yes. What's your point?
:
:: Bur Chris seems to think that evolution is your one stop shop for
:: all of your belief needs!. Why... it can even replace Chris's Mom's
:: apple pie i bet.
::
:
: *What are you on about?
:
: Has it every been mentioned to you that 99.9% of all species that have
: ever lived are extinct?
:
: Natural selection can only work with the mutations it's given. And a
: dozen generations is not likely to produce a new species.
:
:
:: "So far researchers have identified 39 such genetic diseases, many
:: of them fatal, that crop up in the unlucky children of unwary
:: carriers."
:
: You likely carry a few.
:
::
:: I suspose the theory of evolution can even work when the children are
:: D.E.A.D.
:
: If all the children are dead in a species, that would be extinction.
: If only some of the children die, then the survivors win the
: reproductive lottery . this is not a hard concept. Did you think that
: all of the Finnish children were dead? IF so, you have once again
: failed your reading comprehension test.
:

If they remain isolated then fewer and few children will be remaining after
each generation until they all finally go extinct.

They are not isolated.

Understand?

That means reproductive isolation does NOT generate a new species.

How do you reach this conclusion, from this person's research?

What that DOES mean however is that reproductive isolation causes
extinction.

How do you reach this conclusion, given that the population of Finland
is increasing year by year?

We see the first signs of the Finns going extinct with this extrodinary
woman's research. That is unless the Finns can get more genetic diversity
into their country.

How do you reach the conclusion that the Fins are going extinct?

Why not move to Finland K?

Any chance of you explaining your conclusions?

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Oh My. What an intresting development we have here.
    ... :: Chris wrote: ... ::: evolutionary geneticists use the phrase. ... Weeks ago you were lectured on the causes of evolution. ... That means reproductive isolation does NOT generate a new species. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Oh My. What an intresting development we have here.
    ... :: Chris wrote: ... ::: evolutionary geneticists use the phrase. ... Weeks ago you were lectured on the causes of evolution. ... That means reproductive isolation does NOT generate a new species. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Oh My. What an intresting development we have here.
    ... :: Chris wrote: ... ::: evolutionary geneticists use the phrase. ... Weeks ago you were lectured on the causes of evolution. ... That means reproductive isolation does NOT generate a new species. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Oh My. What an intresting development we have here.
    ... :: "Leena Peltonen is one of the world's leading medical geneticists. ... :: the boring Finns," she said with a trace of irony. ... THIS sounds like reproductive isolation. ... Weeks ago you were lectured on the causes of evolution. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Oh My. What an intresting development we have here.
    ... :: "Leena Peltonen is one of the world's leading medical geneticists. ... When scientists look for variants that cause diseases, ... THIS sounds like reproductive isolation. ... Weeks ago you were lectured on the causes of evolution. ...
    (talk.origins)