Re: What is Evolution?

On Mar 16, 9:29 pm, Glenn <GlennShel...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mar 16, 1:06 pm, Burkhard <b.scha...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mar 16, 7:52 pm, Glenn <GlennShel...@xxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mar 16, 12:14 pm, Burkhard <b.scha...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mar 16, 6:10 pm, Louann Miller <louan...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Burkhard <b.scha...@xxxxxxxx> wrote in news:064f7c2d-6bb9-4a6d-be3b-
4342800b9...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:

Scientific naturalism makes certain
claims, such as that the supernatural can never be detected,

Mhh - for a certain value of detected only. I'd say that if the
supernatural is detected (by natural means) , it stops being
supernatural

Annoyingly, THAT is only for a certain value of 'supernatural.' Consider
a classic Biblical miracle, like curing leprosy or raising the dead. If a
story like that means anything, it means that a supernatural cause
produced a natural effect. First you see a guy who really has real
leprosy by any test you care to apply, later he doesn't have; first you
see a guy who is dead as disco, later you see him walking and talking and
eating and pooping, etc. No metaphor or parable or "in a spiritual
sense" about it. It's confirmable and testable what DID happen, only HOW
it happens remains inexplicable.

Mind you, the more carefully records are kept, the fewer miracles of that
type seem to happen. Funny thing.

Yes, you are right of course. Annoying, since i have argued the same
on another thread myself  ;o)  I should  have said: the systematic,
patterned supernatural stops being supernatural.

Are you saying that methodological naturalism allows an elimination of
supernatural influence from the natural?

I don't think that that's what I'm saying (but then I don't quite
understand your question). My point was more that the meaning of the
term "supernatural" is dependent on  or relative to our existing
naturalistic theories. A variation on: "advanced technology will
appear as magic to primitive societies".

Take prayer as an example of something you might consider
supernatural. If we were to observe clear and repeatable patterns that
make "prayer success" sufficiently predictable, allowing the
formulation of theories that  could then be   tested and validated,
then it would simply be integrated into science, as another power, and
stop being supernatural.

What is supernatural about praying?

About praying nothing. Having as a result of the prayer an ad hoc
intervention that seems to violate laws of causality would be a
candidate though. I just wanted to illustrate my point with an
example. If we observed clear patterns of intercedence after prayers,
they would eventually stop to be "supernatural" and just another force
of nature

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: What is Evolution?
    ... like curing leprosy or raising the dead.. ... patterned supernatural stops being supernatural. ... make "prayer success" sufficiently predictable, ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: What is Evolution?
    ... like curing leprosy or raising the dead. ... patterned supernatural stops being supernatural. ... Having as a result of the prayer an ad hoc ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: What is Evolution?
    ... supernatural is detected, it stops being ... a classic Biblical miracle, like curing leprosy or raising the dead. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: What is Evolution?
    ... like curing leprosy or raising the dead. ... you observe a  correlation. ... you are only saying that if prayer were correlated with what was ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: What is Evolution?
    ... a classic Biblical miracle, like curing leprosy or raising the dead. ... patterned supernatural stops being supernatural. ...
    (talk.origins)
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