Re: Truth about the hunter-gather.

Jim Willemin wrote:
"[M]adman" <grat@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote in
news:qNsql.10161$b9.6135@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:



11 thousand year old temple.

Göbekli Tepe (Turkish for "Hill with a Belly") is a hilltop sanctuary
built on the highest point of an elongated mountain ridge about 15km
northeast of the town of Sanliurfa (Urfa) in southeastern Turkey. The
site, currently undergoing excavation by German and Turkish
archaeologists, was erected by hunter-gatherers in the 10th
millennium BC (ca 11,500 years ago), before the advent of sedentism.
Together with the site of Nevali Çori, it has revolutionised the
understanding of the Eurasian Neolithic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6bekli_Tepe

At Göbekli Tepe was found the first temples with totemic symbols. And
totems were used as late as the Americn Indian. Further suggesting
that the notion of a single creator "God" originates from a single
sourse.

How in the name of wonder do you infer a belief in a single creator
god from totem poles? It would seem to me to be much more consistent
with animism or an animistic pantheon.

It is exactly consistant with animism. You are on the right track. Only a
rendition of the creator God goes at the very top.

Animists can be monotheists and/or polytheists. I.e. they could allot a
heart to each object while believing in a single creative god. In the bible
it mentions orgies on the hill tops where worship poles are located and how
displeased God was of that behavior. So i am sure they were using herbal
drugs used as well since "the watchers" are recorded to have taught man the
use of herbs and the cutting of roots. Animism includes the use of drugs,
slaughtering of animals and orgy in their practice.

The totem is used as a place to mark a spot on the earth for worship and
gather without the need for a temple. A unique idea to be all over the
planet in specific places.

Which lends some credibility to the "watchers" being in several parts of the
earth teaching man behavior that was considered corruption by God. The
watcher being in many places on earth teaching man could explain why we see
other similarities world wide such as the building of pyramids in Egypt,
Iraq and south America as well.


http://www.andrewcollins.com/page/articles/Gobekli_Tepe_interview.htm

1) Evidence of 11,000 year old temples.

Which were erected by hunter-gatherers - note there is no evidence for
permanent settlement at Gobleki Tepe (though in areas of abundant food
supply permanent settlements are not inconsistent with
pre-agricultural economies - consider the aboriginal settlements of
the Pacific Northwest coast, for example).

I doubt this kind of building would take place and somehow the people simply
lived off of the land. To build such stuctures requires a work force that
would need to be fed.



2)Evidence of 11,000 year old cities under water

We've talked about this, I believe, and unless you have more and
better evidence of age, or are referring to something other than the
'ruins' in the Gulf of Cambay or the ones off Nagapattinam I have to
consider this one highly questionable. There is no convincing
evidence so far for such an old date.

I would agree with you if there was not recorded information in Indian Vedas
that say otherwise. For that reason they should be assumed older first until
evidence says otherwise.



3) prehistoric artist at Qurta, 15,000 years old
4)The Ballanan-Silsilian culture is dated to about 16,000 to 15,000
years ago
5)the discoveryof a coexisting industry now labeled Silsillian

These three are essentially the same, located on the upper Nile (my
source is Huyge, D. et al., 2007, 'Lascaux along the Nile': Late
Pleistocene rock art in Egypt, Antiquity 81 (313);
http://antiquity.ac.uk/ProjGall/huyge/index.html accessed 1 March
2009). Again, there is no evidence to suggest these were not
hunter-gatherer cultures - the rock art is entirely of fauna, and
there are no agricultural-related implements (e.g. grindstones)
associated with these sites. Agricultural impedimentia show up later.

My reading says other wise. In fact, I have read that cattle were brought to
Europe from Africa and DNA evidence of European cattle bears that out to be
true. Having the ability to use cattle and then transplant that cattle
suggest world wide trade and farming tecniques as well. As in the early
Europeans traded with the Africans and perhaps learned their farming as old
as 15000 years ago.



(c.13,000 BC) 6) Archaeologists in Israel have unearthed an ancient
grave of an elderly woman believed to have been a magical healer
12,000 years ago.

Paleolithic shamans' graves are not, I believe, uncommon (as
Paleolithic graves go), and it seems to me are not inconsistent with
a nomadic hunter-gatherer culture.

There was also evidence of a settled community where the graves were

I am not an archaeologist, but it sure seems to me like you have not
presented any evidence inconsistent with hunter-gatherer culture here.


Everything i have offered comes from archaeologists.

As usual, the average T.O'er needs proof so hard that it clobers them to
death


The evidence is everywhere.

How do you explain such an advanced cultures 11,000 years ago as
"goat herders and simple hunter gatherers?

That the means of acquiring food were relatively simple says nothing
at all about the complexity of the society, nor of the perfection
attained in those technologies necessary to make a living (e.g.
manufacture of tools and weapons and storage containers). Have you
ever seen a cedar-bark basket crafted by the tribespeople of the
Pacific Northwest coast? You can boil water in those things. While
we're in the Pacific Northwest, look up 'potlatch' and tell me that
is not a sophisticated culture developed on a hunter-gatherer base.

The very fact that they were living in stationary communities says that
hunting and gathering was no longer the /primary/ sourse of food supply.


You can't. But ancient texts do. These are the decendents of Adam.
Cain was the first to build a city and name it after his son.

So Cain lived in southeastern India? Or was that northwestern India?
Isn't that a bit of a hike from Mesopotamia? And where in Genesis
does it mention that Cain builded a city, or had a son?

Man, you people on TO are really biblically illerate.

Gen 4:17
"Cain had relations with his wife and she conceived, and gave birth to
Enoch; and he built a city, and called the name of the city Enoch, after the
name of his son."

Other hebrew stories have further details.

The city Cain built was under UR, which was unearthed by Nimerod after the
flood.

That suggest the garden may have been was west of UR because Cain went to
Nod which was east of Eden




They
started out in caves wearing animal skins made by God. They drew
pictures on the cave walls of dino's. They lived hundreds of years
and accumlated knowledge. Then the watchers corrupted their DNA and
their thinking. The watchers brought evil and corruption to mankind.
Evil prevailed. So God sent a flood. These people are gone now
because of the flood. Exactly as described in the book of genesis.

Where in Genesis does in mention living in caves? Chapter and verse,
please. Where in Genesis does it mention living with dinosaurs?
Chapter and verse, please. Who and what were the watchers? Where
are they mentioned in Genesis? Where is DNA mentioned in Genesis?
All this is pure made-up, non-biblical fiction - hogwash and
codswallop.

Yeah,. Keep that head in the sand. That is OK with me.

And why on earth do you think you are important enough for me to sit down
and make up such a story?

Try reading "The Cave of Treasures" and the /many/ other Hebrew and Arab
traditions that describe where Adam and Eve went to live after they were
removed from the garden. Adam, and latter Eve, were buried in the Cave they
once lived in. They are recorded to have lived hundreds of years and even
drew pictures on the cave walls where they lived. Some of those pic's were
of creatures that appear strikingly similar to dinos.

God made the clothes from animal skin. In the bible. All of this information
can be found in ancient texts.



http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=
0 00908

All in all i would say the average T.O'er is not very bight.


.

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