Re: Disorderly Conduct

Caranx latus wrote:
On Feb 2, 8:30 am, "[M]adman" <g...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Caranx latus wrote:
On Feb 2, 2:07 am, "[M]adman" <g...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
As the universe expands it becomes more and more disorderly.

This proves the 2nd Law of TD.

In fact, entropy is everywhere in the universe.

Except. When it comes to Humans.

Humans do not become more disorderly as time goes by. Quite the
contrary. History shows that Humans have become more organized, are
increasing their knowledge and are more ordered with their
civilizations as time goes by.

IOW we are more "ordered" today then we were 5000 years ago when we
hunted, gathered and did small farming.

We become more ordered as time goes by because we are created in
the image and likeness of an Organized and Orderly God.

<sigh/>

Why the "sigh" fish?
What you (and a few others) perceive as my lack of understanding is
actually your own.

Verily and forsooth, what I (and a few others) perceive as your lack
of understanding is actually your lack of understanding.

I spent some time thinking it through today, and I have a possible
explanation for why you do what you do. Bear with me here...

Because you don't want to accept that evolution is true, you
desperately want to make some kind of substantive argument against it.
So you go off in search of arguments that have already been made so
that you can parrot those. This search leads you to creationist web
sites, and to the arguments that appear there against evolution. You
cannot know that these arguments have already been refuted because you
won't read the sites at which those refutations are housed.

So, you find, for example, an argument about thermodynamics and
entropy and you elect to parrot that. The first problem is that
thermodynamics and entropy apply to the physical universe (rather than
the spiritual universe), and therefore have physical explanations. You
don't know about the real explanations for these phenomena because you
won't get your information from science-oriented sources. Instead, you
rely on the creationist web sites with their superficial
interpretations and their incorrect conclusions.

There's a second problem! You don't actually understand the arguments
at the creationist web sites either, and you certainly can't defend
those arguments even to the superficial level at which they are
targeted. So what do you do? You import your far-less-than-adequate
understanding of some of the key terms into your "spiritual" universe,
and you begin to rationalize the few terms and concepts that you have
imperfectly acquired with your spiritual perception until you come up
with a brand-spanking-new concept that makes perfect sense to you.

Now comes the disaster. You take this flight of fancy that you have so
lovingly constructed, and you try to peddle it back to us as though it
pertains to the original physical concepts. It doesn't. It couldn't.
The original physical concepts, which are well understood by people
who are actually educated in physics (or whatever science is
applicable), has first been put into a creationist blender on frappe,
and then *you* put the creationist blender lock, stock and barrel into
your own blender set on liquify. And for some unfathomable reason, you
expect your "commentary" to be somehow applicable to reality. It
isn't.

You would be much further ahead, and I suspect that you would be
happier, if, rather than trying to pass your comments off as
legitimate attempt to address reality, you focused on improving the
quality of your free-form poetry. Give it a try.

"What you (and a few others) perceive as my lack of understanding is
actually your own." would be more effective perhaps in haiku form as:
My understanding
is totally deficient.
Unreasonable.

I supose you think you are correct. But you are not.



Read the paragraph again. The topic was entropy. The transitional
sentence from the universe form of entropy to the mankind form of
entropy was:

["In fact, entropy is everywhere in the universe."]

In no way did I say that the 2LTD was applied to man in the /same/
manor that it applies to the expanding universe. I said that Humans
are an exception to "entropy". I did not say that humans are an
exception to the form of "entropy" we see taking place in the
universe. I gave the 2LTD in the universe as an example of the fact
that entropy does exist. I did this in the first two sentences. The
third sentence uses entropy in a more general sense because of the
various forms of entropy that can be observed.

The word "entropy" has several uses and implied meanings depending
on how it is used and depending on what context it is used in. But
because I used the 2LTD regarding the universe as an example first
_your brain stopped right there_ without applying the other meanings
of the word 'entropy' to mankind in order to see which one fit best.

Here, look at the possible uses:

en·tro·pies
1. Symbol S For a closed thermodynamic system, a quantitative
measure of the amount of thermal energy not available to do work.
2. A measure of the disorder or randomness in a closed system.
3. A measure of the loss of information in a transmitted message.
4. The tendency for all matter and energy in the universe to evolve
toward a state of inert uniformity.
5. Inevitable and steady deterioration of a _system or society_.

As you can see, numbers 4 and 5 can and do apply to mankind. While
numbers 1,2,4 and 5 can apply to the universe in general with 1 and
2 applying specifically. Number 3 applying to mankind's
communication.

So what I wrote in the OP has several distinct points.

1) The 2LTD is proved to exist because of the observed entropy as the
universe expands. (I used this as an example to show entropy does
exist).

2) entropy is everywhere in the universe. (We can observe it in
various forms).

3) entropy does not seem to apply to mankind because of 4 and 5
above AND because of the reasons I gave in my OP.

I equivocate
and think that proper to do.
Conclude anything.

4) a conclusion of why I think entropy does not apply to mankind

If you cannot see these 4 points in my OP then you will never
understand the bible or books like the bible. The bible will ramble
on and on and almost put you to sleep, and then when you least
expect it, the point is being made. And that is where keen sense of
perception is needed. So you do not miss it.

We agree. The Bible could have really used a good editor. As a
pamphlet, it might have been stunningly effective.

The Bible rambles
on and on and on and on.
Fell asleep again.

Despite educational level, it would seem that many of you are an
easy target for anyone selling swamp land in Florida; Such as
evolution. Because in reality, evolution is an often conflicting and
very flimsy theory. You just cannot perceive the fine points of it's
errors just as you missed the fine points of my OP.

Evolution is
swamp for sale in Florida.
Reality bites.

HTH.

--
It is all about the truth with:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
·.¸Adman¸.·
^^^^^^^^^^^

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Disorderly Conduct
    ... What you perceive as my lack of understanding is ... creationist web sites, and to the arguments that appear there ... entropy and you elect to parrot that. ... though it pertains to the original physical concepts. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Disorderly Conduct
    ... What you perceive as my lack of understanding is ... creationist web sites, and to the arguments that appear there ... entropy and you elect to parrot that. ... though it pertains to the original physical concepts. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Disorderly Conduct
    ... What you perceive as my lack of understanding is actually ... entropy and you elect to parrot that. ... the spiritual universe), ... The original physical concepts, which are well understood by people ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: The Dimension of Time
    ... the plate could be put back to the ... I gave you an example of a *closed system* where entropy increases. ... universe in terms of having no flow of time, ... Energy conservation says that energy can be neither created nor ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)
  • Re: The Dimension of Time
    ... the plate could be put back to the ... I gave you an example of a *closed system* where entropy increases. ... Entropy cannot possibly "increase" without a flow of time. ... universe in terms of having no flow of time, ...
    (sci.physics.relativity)