Re: Adaptive Peaks in Typing

On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:41:10 -0800 (PST), rnorman <rnorman@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

On Jan 29, 10:44 am, NA Sides <nongo1...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:34:32 -0800 (PST), Friar Broccoli

<Elia...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jan 29, 12:15 pm, NA Sides <nongo1...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I used to hate typing so, a few years ago, I decided to try out the
Dvorak keyboard mapping on my personal computers. Although it was slow
going at first, after a month or two I was typing faster than ever
before, with no strain on the wrist and fingers,  and - more
remarkably - it was actually fun. It seemed to me that people must be
crazy to remain with the QWERTY layout.

But then I encountered circumstances where I had to use  standard
keyboards and  found that my QWERTY reflexes were shot. I was back to
hunt-and-peck typing.  I persevered and some of those old QWERTY
skills came back - but now I couldn't type very well on either layout.
The skill-sets were interfering with one another.

So I have a few questions. How many evolutionists still type on QWERTY
keyboards?  Can the two keyboard mappings be compared to different
"adaptive peaks" with non-beneficial gaps between them? Are there
larger and more comprehensive sets of life-skills that represent
adaptive peaks - say the skills that allow one to be either a
creationist or an evolutionist?

The above is hard for me to think about.
So I have no idea if the question even makes sense.

And if you can't even shift from being
a QWERTY to a Dvorak typist, how do you expect creationists to make
the transition to scientific thinking?

I think it is all but impossible to get a creationist to think
scientifically.
Just getting them to think is often a challenge.

My personal objective is just to convince them that common descent
is true, while leaving room for God to intervene and provide some non-
random
mutations.

If I can get them that far their threat to the education system is
dramatically
reduced, which is (in my view) a worthwhile and obtainable goal.

So, do you still use a QWERTY keyboard mapping? And, if so, why
haven't you shifted to a demonstrably superior layout? Perhaps your
conservatism in this matter isn't entirely unrelated to their reasons
for sticking with creationism.- Hide quoted text -

Originally, I thought your question was somewhat novel and
interesting. On further reflection I think there is less to it than
it seems. And I find particularly annoying your assumption that
since the Dvorak system is "demonstrably superior" any reasonable
person would immediately switch.

I didn't assume that. I asked for reasons why a reasonable person
might *not* switch. The same question applies to creationism - why
might a reasonable person be unwilling to give it up?

Full disclosure: I am responding (as most people here do) off the top
of my head. I am quite sure there is extensive literature on this
problem and I have no idea what it says. But here is my opinion
anyway:

You are describing two learned tasks which are rather contradictory,
or at least incompatible. You have to do things one way or else do
them a completely contrary way. And you learn to do them completely
automatically, without having to think about it. My impression is
that your own personal experience is not typical; there are no doubt
very many people who learn to easily do both and switch effortlessly
between the two tasks. That is why I think there is less to it than
you suggest: you are merely incapable of learning both tasks to
proficiency, or else you simply don't have the patience to practice
both and so be able to switch. Your attitude about the inferiority of
one system, and your obvious distaste for it, no doubt is part of this
problem.

There's evidence that switching between the two mappings hampers a
QWERTY typist's ability to become proficient with Dvorak. I don't
know if there's data that would show how difficult it would be to
acquire full proficiency with both mappings. As for my problems with
QWERTY, you're no doubt correct. I'm stuck on one peak of an adaptive
landscape.

I am thinking about several situations, not exactly typing on two
keyboards but perhaps comparable. One is the learning of several
languages, something many people do well and which apparently all
children are capable of doing thoroughly. Many people easily and
effortlessly switch from one language to another without apparent
thought. I have heard a small child, just three or four years old,
chat in one language with one person and in another language with
somebody else. When questioned about "knowing" two languages he was
confused and just said that when you talk to so-and-so, you talk this
way; when to talk to somebody else you talk that way.

It might be interesting to study children who learned both mappings.
They might do it more easily than adults. If enough of them learned
both proficiently, their cohort might, in a decade or two, transition
to Dvorak.

Motor learning, of course, is a different subject and involves
different brain circuits. Yet people learn to walk and run and ice
skate and ride unicycles, all of which require rather different motor
"reflexes". Once you are practiced, the behavior becomes automatic.
The disparate skills don't seem to interfere with each other. A
rather more trivial example is learning to shift different automobile
manual transmissions; three speed, five speed, etc. The location of
"first" gear varies by make of car. Again, with experience and
practice, you can shift effortlessly between the two. When I first
got a car with an automatic transmission, I found myself automatically
clunking my left foot into the floorboard trying to hit the non-
existent clutch pedal but after a short time I had no problem
switching between manual and automatic transmission. Perhaps a less
trivial example is playing different musical instruments, say wind
instruments with very different fingering. After an early learning
phase, all musicians simply look at the notes and their fingers hit
the right keys automatically. Somebody who plays two different
instruments "knows" to hit the right key appropriate for that
instrument. A similar situation occurs with changes in musical
notation with changes in clef. The position of the notes on the staff
in treble clef is, of course, different from bass clef yet you learn
to easily play both; you glance at the position of the note on the
staff and your fingers move on the keys. Many instrumentalists also
have to master alto and tenor clefs; I never could but I am sure that
it is simply lack of interest and patience, not lack of ability.

So basically, the problem is entirely your own and can't (or
shouldn't) be generalized. And VoiceOfReason already covered the
problem about why people are so stupid as to not immediately realize
the enormous advantage of switching. There is an enormous cost to
switching and little real benefit. The Dvorak keyboard craze tried
its best to take over but failed and is dead. Your question about
"since Dvorak is so superior to QWERTY, why haven't you yet switched?"
is reminiscent of the question "since humans are so superior to
monkeys, why are there still monkeys?"

Well, couldn't the same be true for creationists? There are enormous
psychosocial costs to shifting. And they don't see much benefit. To
paraphrase your own argument, "the evolution craze tried its best to
take over but failed - only 25% of the US population accept the claim
that human beings are the product of unguided evolution.

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Adaptive Peaks in Typing
    ... Dvorak keyboard mapping on my personal computers. ... crazy to remain with the QWERTY layout. ... person would immediately switch. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: for your consideration
    ... and being in my 50s, and having been touch typing since I was about 12, I ... >> I thought this might be relevant for anyone who uses a keyboard to make ... Are there any medical transcribers who use a Dvorak ... > months of slow time to make the switch. ...
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  • Re: OT: A Better Keyboard
    ... In Windows, you can switch your keyboard to the Dvorak ...
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  • Re: xkb options
    ... ordinary qwerty keyboard. ... dvorak' / 'setxkbmap us. ... because I refused to return to the QWERTY ... The transition takes much longer if you switch back and forth ...
    (Debian-User)
  • Re: xkb options
    ... ordinary qwerty keyboard. ... dvorak' / 'setxkbmap us. ... because I refused to return to the QWERTY ... The transition takes much longer if you switch back and forth ...
    (Debian-User)