Re: Texas Science Standards

On Jan 9, 6:45�am, "Rodjk #613" <rjka...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Jan 9, 1:47�am, Jenny6833A <Jenny68...@xxxxxxx> wrote:





On Jan 8, 7:40 pm, "Steven L." <sdlit...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Jenny6833A wrote:
On Jan 8, 9:21 am, "Steven L." <sdlit...@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

As I've said before: The worst thing you can do with young people is
refuse to discuss an issue that they've already heard about elsewhere.
That only encourages them to: a) ignore you from then on; and b) to
look for answers elsewhere from then on. That's been true with illicit
drugs, that's been true with sex education.

By the time some of these kids get into science class, they have already
heard the Genesis story from their church and from their parents. Some
of them have even heard about creationism or ID from their church or
from their parents.

I'd guess that 99% have, in one form or another.

And if they ask their science teacher about it,
about the obvious conflict between what the teacher is teaching them vs.
what they've heard from their own community, the worst thing the science
teacher can do is reply "No comment."

Agreed with all you wrote, aside from my one comment above. However,
I don't think you're taking it far enough.

The problem comes when just one or two students -- whether sincerely
or with intent to disrupt -- start questioning what the teacher is
teaching using all the false facts and fallacious arguments we hear
here. As we see here, many of the creationist/ID arguments take a lot
of words to unravel. If a teacher lets that process get started, the
stuff he's supposed to teach will never get taught.

You could make that same claim about any other deep questions that kids
have ever asked of their teachers--that it takes time away from teaching
to the syllabus; so the kids should just shut up, take notes, but ask no
questions requiring long answers.

Many of the long answers in a 10th grade bio class would involve
teaching the physics class the students won't have for another two
years, and maybe big chunks of the university classes most will never
take..

<snip social studies>

It's the job of any competent schoolteacher to know the difference
between a kid who is sincerely trying to resolve a conundrum in his
mind, vs. a kid who is just trying to be a heckler or troublemaker.
Certainly a good teacher should never indulge a disruptive student who
is just trying to make trouble.

It's not the teacher's judgment that's at issue here. �It's how the
questioner is perceived by the other students, and ultimately by
parents.

But a teacher who *ducks* a sincere question from a sincere student,
even if it's not in the approved syllabus, simply because it's deemed
too controversial or politically incorrect to talk about it, has damaged
the education of that student, perhaps fatally.

It's not a question of too controversial or politically incorrect.
There's no substantive difference between a sincere question from a
puzzled student and a question from a student based on "knowledge"
obtained elsewhere and intended to show that the teacher is wrong. �In
both cases, the teacher either goes down a time consuming rathole or
must (however adroitly) duck the question.

The teacher will have
introduced yet another conundrum into that student's mind: How to
reconcile all those brave words about science being about "free inquiry"
with the science teacher's obvious fear to discuss certain allegedly
taboo topics.

It's not about "taboo." �It's about dropping large chunks of valuable
material because the teacher was forced to go down ratholes.

If the teacher can give the student an appreciation for the uneasy
relationship that science and faith have had for thousands of years, and
how so much pseudo-science is religion or politics or just paranoia
masquerading as science, that's going to be far more important to that
student than some science trivia from the syllabus that may have gotten
displaced by it***

True, if only trivia is displaced, but there isn't supposed to be any
of that.

The kid can afford to get 5 or 10 lower points on
his SAT by missing one or two "Trivial Pursuit" type questions.

You mean 150 to 300 points. �At least 30 kids take the hit on the SAT,
and in their next bio class too.

He
can't afford to grow up an gullible adult capable of being seduced by
the doubletalk of creationism or any other pseudo-science.

"He" may want to, and almost all around him may want him to. �We
aren't going to "save" them all.

<snip elementary school>

You seem to think that it's all very simple. �I wish I thought you
were right. �IMO, it's a lot harder in practice than you make it
sound.

--
Steven L.

:-)

Jenny

You both have good points.

Where this whole issue runs into trouble is when you have
professionals (Wells, Gish, Morris, Behe) who set out to give kids
false information in such a way as to guarantee that it will bog down
a science class.

The garbage need not come directly from any of them. By now, the
sources are legion.

Whatever the teacher does, he/she looks bad.
Do they continue the discussion?
It puts them way behind on their schedule.
Do they tell the kids; no more, enough...
They look as though they cannot answer the questions and are being
dictatorial.

Yup.

No matter what, science loses.
Which is, overall, the plan of the creationist.

Science will withstand the attacks. I'm more concerned that the
students lose.

Rodjk #613

:-)

Jenny

.

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