Re: Kabbalah

unrestrained_hand@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Dec 27, 7:17 pm, "[M]adman" <g...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
unrestrained_h...@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
On Dec 27, 12:29 pm, "[M]adman" <g...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
chris thompson wrote:
On Dec 27, 2:22 am, "[M]adman" <g...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
chris thompson wrote:
On Dec 25, 10:39 am, "[M]adman" <g...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
chris thompson wrote:
On Dec 25, 1:39 am, "[M]adman" <g...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
chris thompson wrote:
On Dec 23, 6:34 pm, "\(M\)-adman" <g...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Kabbalah is a scientific tool for studying the spiritual
world. To explore our world, we use natural sciences such
as physics, chemistry, and biology. But natural sciences
study only the physical world we perceive with our five
senses. To fully understand the world we live in, we need
a research tool that can explore the hidden realm, that
which our senses cannot perceive. This tool is the wisdom
of Kabbalah.

I have some better tools for studying things beyond our
perception:

1. microscopes, light and electron
2. ultrasound detectors
3. infrared film
4. x-ray diffraction...x-rays in general (but NOT
Chemical-X!)
5. CAT scans
6. nuclear magnetic resonance imaging
7. telescopes- light (including IR) and radio
8. RADAR, SONAR
9. Mass spectrometry
10. chromatography- gas, liquid, high-pressure liquid, even
paper

But by all means, stay in your basement, chant your
incantations, burn your incense.

Anything that keeps you from stomping puppies, the way
others with your afflictions tend to do.

Chris

You really have difficulty with the subject matter , don't
you?

No, I don't think so.

You have described nothing but what is already here.

Yes. That's what most people do. We leave it to religion to
describe things that aren't there.

Well, religion and novelists. The difference, of course, is
that people who write novels generally don't burn you at the
stake when you put their book in the "Fantasy" shelves.

You have just now
figured out how to incease your senses to see what is on your
list.

I'm sorry. Could you rewrite that please?

Also, Merry Christmas to you and yours. Sincerely.

Chris

What do you have against a tool that could help us research a
possible hidden realm? A realm which our senses cannot
perceive?

The items on your list are simply tools to help you perceive
that which has been there all along. At one time, we did not
know certain things existed until the microscope.

Kabbalah is simply a scientific tool for studying the spiritual
world. Just like the tools on your list are used to study the
physical world.

What makes kabbalah scientific? What hypotheses does it test?
What hypotheses have been disproven and how? What revisions has
it incorporated? What predictions has it made that were
substantiated?

What are you afraid of? We might actually find something that
has been there all along?

Bread dough rises. Grape juice ferments. Meat putrefies and milk
changes into cheese. Of two clear, odorless liquids, one
refreshes and the other burns. Bats fly and hunt unerringly in
the dark. Photographic plates inside protective sheaths are
ruined if left near a source of ionizing radiation.

Microscopes reveal the existence and nature of yeast, and
bacteria. They can be viewed as amplifiers of our sense of
vision. But the microorganisms made their presence known.
Microscopes reveal nothing about the difference between water
and acid, but litmus paper changes color. It takes chemical
information and changes it into visual information, and can
thought of as a transducer. Like the yeast and bacteria, the
acid made its presence known. An ultrasound detector is a
transformer- it takes high frequency sound and replays it in
the audible range. And a Geiger counter plays an audible click
when exposed to radiation- another transducer.

The point is that each of these things that enhance our senses
explore the nature of things that manifested in the physical
world. What does kabbalah investigate that has done likewise?
What are the manifestations and what are the data collected by
kabbalah?

Chris

You will never get physically manifested results for something
that is not physical. Therefore we have to be willing to accept
other types of evidences.

Which are those, please? We can and do measure nonphysical things.
Anyone of a certain age recalls using light meters in photography.
They're built in to cameras now but we still use them. And nmr and
ct scans are measuring nonphysical things (albeit things with a
physical source).

Gee, it sounds as if we can come up with a method to measure the
supernatural you would believe in it.

Kabbalah uses the same method as regular science, but gets
results manifested in a different way.

Can you provide a brief description? I know you said you're not
too familiar with it yet but can you relate what you know? A short
explanation of one experiment is a good start.

Sure.
"The Computer as a Tool in Kabbalah"

The Experiment
The purpose of the following experiment was to use a computer and
appropriate software in order to establish if the Torah may have
any hidden allusions to computers. In this instance it was decided
that only the text of the Book of Genesis would be used rather
than the entire Torah. This experiment was prompted in part by
sections of the Zohar where it is inferred that both the absolute
placing and the relative spacing between words of the Torah are
extremely significant.

results, graphs etc.. quite impressive. here:

http://www.research-systems.com/kabbalah/makhshev.html

and this: Is there really a Message in PI?
<http://www.research-systems.com/codes/mathcode-web.pdf>

I am not that familiar with it, but I do intend to be. The
information I have read so far seem fascinating.

If you can, please project a message to Madonna: age gracefully
instead of trying to stay 25 (or even 35).

I doubt the Holy Mother cares about your trivialities

Chris

So, in the book of Genesis he found three uses of the Hebrew word
now used for "computer". This proves, what, exactly? Did he make a
prediction ahead of time? what hypothesis would have been disproved
if he had gotten results?

"Not only that, but it would seem that there is a strong allusion to
the basic units of measurement and the numerical bases currently in
use in computing. "

Wow. References to numbers and math terms which are now used in
Hebrew computer science. This is... absolutely to be expected. This
is numerology - all sorts of connections can be found if you go
browsing.

What was the testable hypothesis?

How was the Hebrew word for computer used in the bronze age?

I'll bet I can find ancient texts that use the word "tracks". Does
that mean they were giving hidden messages about railroads?

Kermit

Must you _always_ be such a skeptic K?

Yes. Insufficient skepticism leads to deaths and misery. Or worse,
Shirley MacLaine.

Or even Jane Fonda.

And what has thinking scientifically wrought?

Death, Guns, bombs nuclear weapons, chemical spills and oil dependence.




Have an open mind for a change.

I do. I'm willing to believe in telepathy, leprechauns, or even
compassionate conservatives. Just show me verifiable evidence.
Skepticism doesn't mean being a curmudgeon, or pessimist, or denying
all things wondrous and beautiful. It means not being a gullible
idiot. I means accepting good evidence, but nothte say-so of someone
who has an agenda, or is asking for money, or wants reassurance.

It is skeptics, not the wide-eyed New Agers, who:
Cure most childhood leukemia patients in the West.
Reattach severed limbs.
Wiped out smallpox.
Invented computers.
Sent the Hubble Space Telescope into orbit.

Telepathy could be real based on something that we do not understand yet,
whereas leprechauns are based on baseless stories, fables. It is a
perception of what could or could not be real that is lacking in most of
your statements and comparisons.

Telepathy compares to unexplained phenomenon, while leprechauns compare to
the Easter bunny. Get it?

And of course you make it seem that western science is the be all and end
all of human information and knowledge.

Most of the things on your list were invented because the scientists /WERE
NOT/ _skeptical_ and because they simply _believed_ that we could fly to
the moon, invent that cure, or reattach that limb. It was only when atheism
hijacked science that scientific study started following such ridged rules.
Your brainwashing and the redirection of creative scientific discovery is
complete.

I bet that leaves you empty. I know it takes much away from science.

occurrences of a single word that can be used as a check sum.

Ummm... what?


They also showed the formula of 77700 + (7*7*7) + (7+7+7) proved
Genesis survived intact for more then 3000 years regarding its
length and the three placements of the check sum word. IOW the check
sum worked.

Why? Because they found a pattern when they fiddled with the numbers
enough? Do you have a three thousand year old Torah to compare it to?
How does *any "hidden" number establish this?

If you did, you could just compare the new ones to the old ones.

1) you did not FTFA
2)You are being overly skeptical


wih a single apple
falling. Right?

More or less. Then he produced a testable hypothesis and invented a
couple of new sciences. He also wasted time on numerology and alchemy.
But his good work is still good.

He was a jerk, too, from what I hear. But that doesn't negate his work
in optics and orbital mechanics. Can you reason in the abstract - what
principle does this specific example illustrate?

But he had faith in his idea despite others skepticism



Considering they are trying to use a physical process to prove
something that is not physical, the results are rather interesting.
This is not your normal 'bible code' crap. They seem to be doing
serious research.

No, it's the normal bible code crap.
What testable hypothesis are they trying to falsify?
What specific prediction are they making?

It is on the web site



Yet even with this seed of proof, you refuse to consider it. Face
facts. You ask for proof of the supernatural that cannot be provided
in the manor that you ask. And then you discredit any other forms of
evidence offered. That's a convenient way to keep your head in the
sand so you do not have to consider anything other then what meets
your narrow criteria as proof and your narrow view of the world.

<snort>

Please explain how translating letters into numbers is evidence for
anything.

I am not skeptical. I believe they can reattach that limb.


I suggest numerology is old, also. Perhaps some of the writers were
working there own messages into the Pentateuch. If so, explain how you
can tell that they are not imposing their own ideas on unrelated
"messages".

What would you expect to find if these had no hidden content? For
example, they don't seem to be comparing the same techniques to "The
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy". One wonders what results they would
get. Also, the results if others applied the same techniques to this
book.

leprechauns compare to the Easter bunny

The bible does NOT compare to Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy


Which basically equals brainwashing. You have been brainwashed to
believe that only (X) is valid because only (a) (b) (c) is
sufficient as proof.

I have been brainwashed to think that this equation is so vague as to
be circumstantial evidence that you do not want to be pinned down;
that fog is your refuge; fuzz your armor; handwaving the bulk of you
arsenal.

Incorrect. You simply cannot plug in the values for the variables that
pertains to your views of life. So you blame me.

For example:

Is X(dog food) actually good for your dog based on television commericals
that say (a) (b) (c) or have you actually looked into the nutritional value
of your dog's food yourself? I suspect you purchase dog food because the
commerical is catchy and cute and lies to you sucessfully. IOW the
commerical brainwashed you into believing that BrandX is the best food for
your dog based on no real understanding of that dog food yourself.

Now, apply other values that pertain to your life.

*IF* you make decisions about X based on (a) (b) (c) that you learned from
others with out any discovery of your own, then you may very well be
brainwashed.

And i see alot of that blanket belief that (a) (b) (c) is only valid for
proving X here at TO.



That's nonsense and very self limiting.

Yes...

indeed, very self limiting


Kermit

.

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