Re: News: Breast cancer gene-free baby due.

On Dec 22, 12:04 am, Vend <ven...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On 21 Dic, 23:25, Burkhard <b.scha...@xxxxxxxx> wrote:



On Dec 21, 5:17 pm, Vend <ven...@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On 21 Dic, 16:27, Sapient Fridge <use_reply_addr...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

In message
<cb94fe83-3e74-465b-a875-a84d31fa0...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Ron
O <rokim...@xxxxxxx> writes

On Dec 21, 6:55 am, Ye Old One <use...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Sun, 21 Dec 2008 04:14:16 -0800 (PST), Vend <ven...@xxxxxxxxxxx>
enriched this group when s/he wrote:

On 21 Dic, 02:53, Ye Old One <use...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
<snip>
"What next? It is going further along the line which ultimately ends
in designer babies."

I don't think this technology leads towards designer babies,

Actually, I don't either. One of the doctors involved gave an
interview on Radio 4 the other day and he said it was not designer
babies as all they could do was weed out genetic problems.

since the
expected number of embryo to be discarded increases exponentially with
the number of traits (on independently inheritable chromosome regions)
selected.

I suppose a better efficiency could be obtained by operating selection
on the gametes, the sperm cells in particular which are available in
large amounts, but that would require non-destructive DNA testing
(maybe some form of DNA marking like that used in cancer terapies?).

--
Bob.

What is the definition of genetic problems?

There have already been cases where dwarf parents have wanted to use
fetal genetic testing to determine if they wanted to abort the fetus.
The fetuses that they wanted to abort were the "normal" non dwarf.
They did not want normal children because they were too hard to
handle.

Not the only example. Deaf parents have tried to choose to have deaf
children:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article3087367.ece

Child abuse.

Definitely a bit of a moral minefield, and one that will only get more
complex as time goes on.

I don't see anything particularly complicated about the issue.
It's mutilation and it's already immoral and most likely illegal.

--
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Only if you make quite a couple of problematic assumptions (i.e., it
is complicated, once you think about it): You assume that being deaf
is better than not being deaf

Yes.

- but on what basis?

Because hearing is useful.

Deaf people might
claim that it is more an issue of a trade-of f- they lack some skills,
but are compensated by having/developing other skills.

Lies.

That they are
disadvantaged is simply a result of social attitudes that arbitrarily
value one skill over the other,

Which skill do deaf people master better than people with normal
hearing?

How good are you at lip reading?


or design an environment where
possession of one rather than the other is advantageous.

An environment such as the universe?

Build environment, of course, - I'm not IDler, when I use the word
design, I only mean things created by humans ;o)

Under the
"social definition of disability" that increasingly builds the
foundation of disability discrimination law, its not people who are
disabled, its the environment that disables them.

Such definition is not only incorrect but also irrelevant, since
people are constrained to live in the social environment.
People with disabilities have the right not to be voluntarily
discriminated against, but there is no way the environment will change
to become fair to them by damaging people with normal skills.
Nature is fundamentally unfair and socieities which tend to the lowest
common denominator are unviable.

Well, one part of my job for the last couple of years was to ensure
that my department complies with the relevant legislation and does not
create burdens for students with disabilities. - the UK Disability
discrimination act, just like the US ADD, assume the social definition
of disability - and guess what, you can very easily change lots of
things, once you think about them, thing s you did for no real purpose
whatsoever, just because it worked for "most " people

I take your poitn tat post natal operations would be illegal - but now
let's get you on the slippery slope: You have a couple who are not
dwarfs, but nicely "petite" - do they have a legal.moral obligation
to choose the foetus with the greatest expected hight, only because
some bad designers put the shelfs in the supermarket up high? Is it
not better to make them put the shelfs lower?

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: News: Breast cancer gene-free baby due.
    ... I don't think this technology leads towards designer babies, ... Deaf parents have tried to choose to have deaf ... but are compensated by having/developing other skills. ... foundation of disability discrimination law, ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: News: Breast cancer gene-free baby due.
    ... interview on Radio 4 the other day and he said it was not designer ... Designed environment are still constrained by the laws of nature. ... "social definition of disability" that increasingly builds the ... its the environment that disables them. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: News: Breast cancer gene-free baby due.
    ... enriched this group when s/he wrote: ... I don't think this technology leads towards designer babies, ... The U.S. Government has to have one, because they pay disability ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: News: Breast cancer gene-free baby due.
    ... enriched this group when s/he wrote: ... I don't think this technology leads towards designer babies, ... The U.S. Government has to have one, because they pay disability payments to qualified individuals under Social Security and other programs. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: News: Breast cancer gene-free baby due.
    ... interview on Radio 4 the other day and he said it was not designer ... babies as all they could do was weed out genetic problems. ... "social definition of disability" that increasingly builds the ... no handicaps indicates a profound confusion, ...
    (talk.origins)
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