Re: Data Does Not Lie

chris thompson wrote:
On Dec 8, 2:43 pm, "\(M\)-adman" <g...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
chris thompson wrote:
On Dec 5, 11:25 pm, "\(M\)-adman" <g...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Ernest Major wrote:
In message
<42819a3f-de59-4434-b1f7-e1cb0ce7e...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
chris thompson <chris.linthomp...@xxxxxxxxx> writes
On Dec 5, 9:34 am, "\(M\)-adman" <g...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
chris thompson wrote:
On Dec 4, 9:50 pm, "\(M\)-adman" <g...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Ron O wrote:
On Dec 4, 12:22 pm, "\(M\)-adman" <g...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
The scientists call their findings survival of consciousness
-- meaning our physical bodies die, but we continue on.

The research continues with studies that include near-death
survivors.

Schwartz says near-death experience research completely
dovetails and supports what's coming from the mediums.

He says he will continue his research, and that the data
doesn't lie.

"When you look at the totality of the data from our
laboratory, the simplest explanation is actually that
survival of consciousness is real," said Schwartz.

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/2893543/detail.html
--

It is all about the truth with:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
·.¸Adman¸.·
^^^^^^^^^^^

"Lies, damn lies and statistics."

Data is misinterpreted all the time.

Evolution. The quintessential example.

Please reevaluate the presence of identical endogenous
retroviruses in humans, chimps, and gorillas. The evolutionary
hypothesis is that we share these nonprimate gene sequences
because our common ancestor passed them on to us. What is the
adman hypothesis? How were these data misinterpreted?

Please be specific. Please include references to the actual
data. Here's a good place to start:

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0001026

Thanks,

Chris

Let's see... wikipedia says:

"Endogenous retroviruses are retroviruses derived from ancient
infections of germ cells in
humans, mammals and other vertebrates; as such their proviruses
are passed on to the next
generation and now remain in the genome."

And we know HIV is a Endogenous retroviruse that can infect
somatic cells, but some can also
infect germline cells (cells that make eggs and sperm) and once
they have done so and have been
transmitted to the next generation, they are termed endogenous.

GUESS WHAT
Endogenous retroviruses sound like ANY OTHER VIRIUS that can be
caught by the individual
species. It seems the only thing needed is for the virus to have
the ability to infect germline
cells to be passed into the gnome to be considered endogenous.

Could it be THAT simple?

Well, it is usually difficult for animal virus to infect humans
although not imposible if and
when viris mutates.

A) human (Homo sapiens) ERV-K (HERV-K), B) common chimpanzee
(Pan troglodytes) ERV-K (CERV-K)
and, C) rhesus monkey (Macaca mulatta) ERV-K (RhERV-K).

Three different viris today. Probably three different virus' a
million years ago. Small chance
the monkey or chimp virus mutated and infected humans as we see
with HIV.

Caught just like any other virus. Passed into the gemone by
infecting the germline cell and then
becoming endogenous.

The difference between real science and evolution is real
science looks for the simplest answer
frst.

Keep warm today. You just may CATCH a virus with the ability to
infect germline cells passed
into the gnome that becomes endogenous.

So, the simplest answer is that every single human, chimpanzee,
and rhesus monkey (along with every member of multiple other
species of primate) was infected separately, at some time in the
recent past, with mostly similar but slightly different
retroviruses...enough of primate pandemic to insure that the
proviruses remain in...

every

single

individual

alive

today...

And no one noticed?

Um, was it by any chance "opposite day" when you looked up
'parsimony'?

Chris

You forget to mention a few other details, such as the consistent
location of the ERVs in the genomes, and the correlations between
ERV cladograms and host cladograms.

You loose sight of the bigger picture. Viruses can be caught.
Viruses can mutate. The mutations can cause animals and humans to
catch the same virus.

Right. Different species can contract the same viruses. However, you
lose sight of the fact that retroviruses do not behave like other
viruses. While all viruses are dependent on the machinery of the
host cell to replicate, only retroviruses are actually taken into
the genome of the host. This can occur just about anywhere in the
DNA of the host.

Now your contention is that the appearance of endogenous
retroviruses in multiple genomes is the result of separate
infections. I have already pointed out the absurdity of thinking
identical or near- identical viruses infected every primate on the
planet at the same time, such that every living specimen carries
the same suite of ERVs. Ernest Major has pointed out the additional
ridiculous aspect of your position (from which you assiduously ran
at top speed)- simply, not only did every primate suffer the exact
same infections at the exact same time in history, but the
retroviruses somehow managed to insert themselves into the exact
same spots in the hosts' genomes! Remarkable, eh?

And ever since those remarkable primate pandemic, every single
endogenous retrovirus has somehow accumulated the exact same
mutations!

Keep in mind that (according to Wikipedia) ERVs now make up
somewhere around 6% of our entire genome (or gnome, if you will; if
you think that's really cool is it a gee!nome?) Imagine that- all
that DNA in all those species, all in the same place, all mutating
in synchrony.

Parsimony?

No.

Chris

You deny that a virus can mutate like the flu does? And do you deny
that one virus can jump from animal to human because of a mutation
as we see with bird-flu today? Thereby leaving the same traces of
the virus in the gnome providing the virus infects germline cells ?

Nice cut-and-paste but, as usual, it addresses none of the issues.

Unless you really are claiming that things happened as I described:
these retroviruses infected species after species, all within a short
period of time (in itself quite a feat- species jumps don't happen
*that* rapidly, you know)...

AND they all managed to insert in the same spot in the host genome...

AND they all acquired identical mutations in the time since?

So now we know you know how to use ctrl-c and ctrl-v.

Use the _other_ keys on your computer to include a substantive answer,
or admit you're full of malodorous fecal matter.


Actually i use the right mouse click.


Chris

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Data Does Not Lie
    ... somatic cells, but some can also ... Endogenous retroviruses sound like ANY OTHER VIRIUS that can be ... It seems the only thing needed is for the virus to have ... infections. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Data Does Not Lie
    ... cells, but some can also ... Endogenous retroviruses sound like ANY OTHER VIRIUS that can be ... Viruses can be caught. ... in multiple genomes is the result of separate infections. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Data Does Not Lie
    ... somatic cells, but some can also ... Endogenous retroviruses sound like ANY OTHER VIRIUS that can ... species of primate) was infected separately, ... infections. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Data Does Not Lie
    ... somatic cells, but some can also ... Endogenous retroviruses sound like ANY OTHER VIRIUS that can ... It seems the only thing needed is for the virus to ... infections. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Data Does Not Lie
    ... somatic cells, but some can also ... Endogenous retroviruses sound like ANY OTHER VIRIUS that can be ... It seems the only thing needed is for the virus to have ... in multiple genomes is the result of separate infections. ...
    (talk.origins)