Re: Data Does Not Lie

chris thompson wrote:
On Dec 5, 11:25 pm, "\(M\)-adman" <g...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Ernest Major wrote:
In message
<42819a3f-de59-4434-b1f7-e1cb0ce7e...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
chris thompson <chris.linthomp...@xxxxxxxxx> writes
On Dec 5, 9:34 am, "\(M\)-adman" <g...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
chris thompson wrote:
On Dec 4, 9:50 pm, "\(M\)-adman" <g...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Ron O wrote:
On Dec 4, 12:22 pm, "\(M\)-adman" <g...@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
The scientists call their findings survival of consciousness
-- meaning our physical bodies die, but we continue on.

The research continues with studies that include near-death
survivors.

Schwartz says near-death experience research completely
dovetails and supports what's coming from the mediums.

He says he will continue his research, and that the data
doesn't lie.

"When you look at the totality of the data from our
laboratory, the simplest explanation is actually that
survival of consciousness is real," said Schwartz.

http://www.newsnet5.com/news/2893543/detail.html
--

It is all about the truth with:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
·.¸Adman¸.·
^^^^^^^^^^^

"Lies, damn lies and statistics."

Data is misinterpreted all the time.

Evolution. The quintessential example.

Please reevaluate the presence of identical endogenous
retroviruses in humans, chimps, and gorillas. The evolutionary
hypothesis is that we share these nonprimate gene sequences
because our common ancestor passed them on to us. What is the
adman hypothesis? How were these data misinterpreted?

Please be specific. Please include references to the actual data.
Here's a good place to start:

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0001026

Thanks,

Chris

Let's see... wikipedia says:

"Endogenous retroviruses are retroviruses derived from ancient
infections of germ cells in
humans, mammals and other vertebrates; as such their proviruses
are passed on to the next
generation and now remain in the genome."

And we know HIV is a Endogenous retroviruse that can infect
somatic cells, but some can also
infect germline cells (cells that make eggs and sperm) and once
they have done so and have been
transmitted to the next generation, they are termed endogenous.

GUESS WHAT
Endogenous retroviruses sound like ANY OTHER VIRIUS that can be
caught by the individual
species. It seems the only thing needed is for the virus to have
the ability to infect germline
cells to be passed into the gnome to be considered endogenous.

Could it be THAT simple?

Well, it is usually difficult for animal virus to infect humans
although not imposible if and
when viris mutates.

A) human (Homo sapiens) ERV-K (HERV-K), B) common chimpanzee (Pan
troglodytes) ERV-K (CERV-K)
and, C) rhesus monkey (Macaca mulatta) ERV-K (RhERV-K).

Three different viris today. Probably three different virus' a
million years ago. Small chance
the monkey or chimp virus mutated and infected humans as we see
with HIV.

Caught just like any other virus. Passed into the gemone by
infecting the germline cell and then
becoming endogenous.

The difference between real science and evolution is real science
looks for the simplest answer
frst.

Keep warm today. You just may CATCH a virus with the ability to
infect germline cells passed
into the gnome that becomes endogenous.

So, the simplest answer is that every single human, chimpanzee, and
rhesus monkey (along with every member of multiple other species
of primate) was infected separately, at some time in the recent
past, with mostly similar but slightly different
retroviruses...enough of primate pandemic to insure that the
proviruses remain in...

every

single

individual

alive

today...

And no one noticed?

Um, was it by any chance "opposite day" when you looked up
'parsimony'?

Chris

You forget to mention a few other details, such as the consistent
location of the ERVs in the genomes, and the correlations between
ERV cladograms and host cladograms.

You loose sight of the bigger picture. Viruses can be caught.
Viruses can mutate. The mutations can cause animals and humans to
catch the same virus.

Right. Different species can contract the same viruses. However, you
lose sight of the fact that retroviruses do not behave like other
viruses. While all viruses are dependent on the machinery of the host
cell to replicate, only retroviruses are actually taken into the
genome of the host. This can occur just about anywhere in the DNA of
the host.

Now your contention is that the appearance of endogenous retroviruses
in multiple genomes is the result of separate infections. I have
already pointed out the absurdity of thinking identical or near-
identical viruses infected every primate on the planet at the same
time, such that every living specimen carries the same suite of ERVs.
Ernest Major has pointed out the additional ridiculous aspect of your
position (from which you assiduously ran at top speed)- simply, not
only did every primate suffer the exact same infections at the exact
same time in history, but the retroviruses somehow managed to insert
themselves into the exact same spots in the hosts' genomes!
Remarkable, eh?

And ever since those remarkable primate pandemic, every single
endogenous retrovirus has somehow accumulated the exact same
mutations!

Keep in mind that (according to Wikipedia) ERVs now make up somewhere
around 6% of our entire genome (or gnome, if you will; if you think
that's really cool is it a gee!nome?) Imagine that- all that DNA in
all those species, all in the same place, all mutating in synchrony.

Parsimony?

No.

Chris

You deny that a virus can mutate like the flu does? And do you deny that one virus can jump from
animal to human because of a mutation as we see with bird-flu today? Thereby leaving the same
traces of the virus in the gnome providing the virus infects germline cells ?

If the same germline cell virus hit all of life at the same time, there would be no life. Can
you imagine if the Plague had hit humans and animals alike and at the same time and it could
infect the germline cells too?

There is no way we can tell from viral remains in our gnome that our ancestors were apes. If we
cannot pass a virus between the two species now, what makes you think we ever could? If we have
viral remanins of the same virus between animal and human, then it is like the bird-flu-virus
that has mutated just enough to allow species jumping. It is not because we shared a common
ancestor.

This is the same principal as "each after his own kind". If they cannot mate, OR PASS A VIRUS,
then they probably are not the same kind of creature and are genetically different enough to be
considered different kinds.

And yes. We probably all caught it like cold long ago and the remains are passed through the
gnome because it was a virus that could infect the germline cells. A virus that mutated and was
passed from human to ape or vs.versa.



--

It is all about the truth with:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
·.¸Adman¸.·
^^^^^^^^^^^

.

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