Re: Seanpit, ID and complexity

On Oct 11, 5:31 pm, wf3h <w...@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
seanpit makes a big deal about the analogy between SETI and ID.
unfortunately for him, seth shostak and other SETI researchers think
ID is codswallop...but that's another issue

seanpit uses the SETI analogy primarily because we know how radio
waves are formed...there's a mechanism. but his ID 'theory' has no
mechanism so must, necessarily, rely on analogies to hide his failure.

but there's ANOTHER issue he hasn't dealt with.  it's a marshall
mcluhan idea: the medium is the message.

you can tell, by analyzing the structure of a radio signal, whether or
not it's content is 'intelligently designed' or not.  you can do that
because we have non-intelligent radio signals to compare.

but where is a non-intelligent DNA structure? DNA structure is not
radio waves. it's not based on radio waves.  DNA is chemistry, not
electromagnetism.  there is nothing in seanpit's analogy which
validates or justifies the comparison.

we can not tell, for example, by examining the complexity of sequence
of nucleotides in a DNA sample, whether it was created by intelligent
humans in the lab, or whether it's natural.  without some non
intelligent source of DNA to compare it to, we have no idea whether or
not its complexity was natural or not. even if seanpit is correct, and
evolution can't produce DNA changes that code for greater than
1000aa's, some other natural process can not be ruled out.

in this case, the medium is the message.  radio waves communicate
information, but not process. DNA does both. DNA codes for
proteins...it causes an effect that radio waves do not. there is HUGE
difference in the ways DNA and radio waves handle info.

and even if he is correct in saying that DNA could not have been been
produced by evolution, how does this rule out DNA being subject to
evolution? if he has an alternative process that produces speciation,
if speciation is occurring today (and it is), then what is the
mechanism? again he doesn't say.

seanpit's use of SETI is misleading...primarily to himself. he has
confused radio waves with chemistry. he has confused the medium with
the message. he has confused content with structure. in short, his
analogy is so off base that it, in and of itself, is evidence of the
failure of ID to be legitimate.

Why are you after Sean?

In a recent exchange of messages he plainly indicated to me that he
accepts "low level Evolution" (= microevolution); species mutability;
random mutation and common descent or ancestry. He is on your side.

Ray

.

Relevant Pages

  • Re: Chez Wat: Humans cant produce complex DNA?
    ... what is the "mechanism" humans use to produce radio signals ... now tell me how god changes DNA. ... where is the ID mechanism that does this in nature? ... radio waves have no such property at all. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Seanpit, ID and complexity
    ... seanpit makes a big deal about the analogy between SETI and ID. ... but where is a non-intelligent DNA structure? ... it's not based on radio waves. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: The ID-only hypothesis - Again
    ... certain types of radio signals that humans can and do produce is the ... but DNA is chemistry...not radio waves. ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Non-God ID origin of Life?
    ... The same can be said for radio signals. ... it is CRITICAL to your argument that we know enough about DNA ... Science only requires ... nature - just like the SETI-type radio signals are not produce by non- ...
    (talk.origins)
  • Re: Evolution and Observation Gap
    ... Life exists on at least one planet, Earth. ... That life is based on carbon and water. ... Radio waves travel through interplanetary space. ... One could suppose that DNA could have a hidden message. ...
    (talk.origins)