Re: Poor Noah and tree ring dating

r norman wrote:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:11:00 -0700, John Harshman
<jharshman.diespamdie@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

r norman wrote:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:15:36 -0700, John Harshman
<jharshman.diespamdie@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

r norman wrote:
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 11:06:12 -0700, John Harshman
<jharshman.diespamdie@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

r norman wrote:
I do enjoy pointing out errors in the arguments used even by (or, more
to the point, especially by) the "good guys".
What error, in this case? I enjoy pointing out the errors made by the good guys in pointing out errors of other good guys.
The error in believing science and reason might actually will work.
No problem, as long as you are willing to agree that every attempted refutation of every creationist claim, on TO or elsewhere, suffers from the same error in equal measure.

Layering in the oceans
is a very common phenomenon and you often have brackish water
overlying full saline.
Not when the volume of the water in question has been increased several times over from both below (fountains) and above (windows) in only 40 days. Calculate that rate for a minute. There's no way to do it without tremendous violence. Unless of course you invoke another miracle, and then I get points.
I get about one-tenth of an inch per second rise in the water level.
Try converting that to inches per day and tell me it's all nice and calm. And don't forget the fountains of the deep.
Converted to inches per day and it still remains one-tenth of an inch
per second.

That doesn't seem too drastic to me once you know that the source of
water was uniformly distributed over the surface of the earth. Your
description of the violent formation of thousands of feet of
sedimentary deposits and other erosional features doesn't appear
anywhere in the Bible and must be merely false interpretations added
by later unlearned imposters.
All very nice, but somebody would have to come up with a new explanation for all those fossils. You do demonstrate a common creationist technique, though, which is to consider one bit of information in isolation from all others. For them, the question of the moment is all that exists, and they don't even think about their current point being incompatible with something else they also say.
I have read the Bible (aka the Old Testament, which is all that
counts) a number of times and never saw any mention of fossils.
Anybody who wants to drag those in is simply in error. You can't
supplement the Truth with made-up stories. God created the heavens
and the earth. If the earth contains fossils and strata and whatever,
then they were created as well.
Excellent. Another tried and true creationist argument, the omphalos thing. You don't see that very often any more with regard to fossils, because it's just so silly that even creationists have trouble believing it these days. You, not believing it anyway, have no such handicap.

There was just a gradual rise of water
that drowned all living flesh (but not plants) followed by its
recession to allow Noah and his kids to procreate and replenish.
Actually, the mixing bit had nothing to do with the plants, since fresh or salt water covering them for 150 days would kill them as effectively. That point is mostly about fish. Now of course the problem there is that all the saltwater fish would be under several miles of freshwater, which might be find for the abyssal species but which would certainly kill off everything else, not to mention the entire oceanic ecosystem after all the plankton and zooxanthellae shuffle off (darkness: bad). Black smokers might survive unharmed, though.
Again, you are failing to take into consideration God's will about who
and what lives and what dies.

Keep on and you will still not get any farther, Goddidit, Goddidit,
Goddidit, God damn it, Goddidit!

Hey, most of the fun of this is trying to rationalize creationist arguments and follow their (unconscious) implications. If comforts me to think of the black smokers as islands of resistance to god's wrath. Probably, the entire abyssal plain would do fine, since a single dead whale, for example, can support a community for years. As long as the upper regions recovered from the extinction fast enough, no problem.

Though it just occurred to me: black smokers are good candidates to be the sites of the "fountains of the deep". Bye bye, refugium. Ashes, ashes, all fall down.

The fun of trying to rationalize creationist arguments only carries so
far -- ending about a half dozen posts ago. It would seem to me that
black smokers (not referring to the group who often prefer mentholated
cigarettes) would be agents of Satan, although that whole Satan-Devil
business is also decidedly non-Biblical.

The thing that really gets me is all the attention that the silly
flood business gets while nobody at all seems concerned with the sons
of God who came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children
to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
I thought that God had only one begotten son, but there is the
contradiction, right there in Genesis 6:2 and 6:4. There is also the
business that "there were giants in the earth in those days."

I just know that fundies have an explanation for that passage, though I can't summon it up just now. Probably something to do with the Hebrew for "sons of god" not being taken as literal sons, perhaps fallen angels. Or maybe these sons were just unbegotten, hence exempt. And of course there were giants, and we do have fossils of them. The famous Scrotum humanum, for example. And some one-eyed forms (probably Cyclopes) that bear a superficial resemblance to elephant skulls. The evidence is all around if you just look for it, though you do have to be wearing the proper glasses.

.

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